Senate Community Affairs Legislation Committee, , 25:56 to 35:47
The committee examines the cost differences between current programs and the proposed Support at Home model, focusing on volunteer workforce sustainability.
Topics: Social services, Health
Speakers: Claudia Odello, Hon Anne Ruston, Leeanne Wright, Dorinda Cox, Penny Allman-Payne
when when you turn up to Wendy's place to deliver her lunch and she's got soup, main course and dessert, um Support at Home or the government subsidization of CHSP, whatever it happens to be, you will get $28.60 and you will then charge the person $12 or whatever you say. So, so you got $28.60, so you're you're talking $40. So, you're charging the the effective rate to deliver that meal is $40, whereas in Support at Home, you're
Could I just explain CHSP block funding? It's really confusing. It took me a long time to get my head around it as well. So, CHSP funding, every Meals on Wheels service is given a contract with a number of units or outputs that they need to deliver for a sum of money. That sum of money actually funds the operations and fixed costs of that Meals on Wheels service, but it's tied to the delivery of a unit, which doesn't really make very much sense.
>> So, you paid separately for the units?
So, we put
I'm trying to understand whether it's more cost-effective for you to be block funded and provide the meal to the person or is there an additional cost to be able to do it via um the Support at Home mechanism? So, if I've got two people, one's on Support at Home and one's on CHSP, is the cost of the delivery of that meal more expensive under CHSP under Support at Home than
CHSP? So, we can't use our CHSP funding to deliver Support at Home meals. That's just for the CHSP program. So, so the cost would be higher because we're we're charging a full cost recovery on that
meal. I understand that, but at the end of the day, whether it comes from the person or whether it comes from you like via the person's package or whether it comes via block funding, it's still being funded by the taxpayer. Now, in the case of these they're two different mechanisms, but the actual cost of the delivery, which one's more expensive?
The Support at Home delivery is more expensive.
>> Okay, what I'd love if you possibly do it. I mean, I know this probably not the time to be going through it cuz I'm we're going to run out of time. I'd love to understand and unpack Yes. the difference between the cost of the Support at Home delivery of your service and and I don't care where the money comes from.
>> Sure.
I just need to understand if there's a difference because if we're talking about changing 30% of the 835,000 people who are currently on CHSP, if we're going to change them onto Support at Home and they're currently getting you know, their meals for you know, costing $50, now they're going to cost $80, that's a basically a $30 increase for every single one of those people that has achieved nothing in terms of additionality.
I'll I'll take that one on notice and I'll send you examples from some different communities, CHSP versus
if you could do that. Thank you.
Sorry. That's all right. Thanks, Senator Ruston. I understand I have Senator Cox on line, so Senator Cox, I'll give you the call and you'll be our last questioner and before we move on to the next witness.
Yeah, thank you uh Chair and I hope you can hear me. I have I'm having some video problems, so I can't you won't be able to see me, so my apologies. Um I just wanted to pick up on Senator Ruston's um final question there and I'll I'll be really quick. I I just wanted you to explain to us um maybe if you're giving uh that information on notice. how CHSP services are currently funded um and how you go about planning your service delivery within that funding model or if you you you've got the answer for that, I'm really happy to take that now.
Yeah, so um, currently every Meals on Wheels provider receives a contract from the government which has an allocated number of um, outputs they call them on the contract and a sum of money that they're prepared to pay that service. Those um, contracts How often do you get them? Every 2 years? >> Every 2 Every 2 years they get a new contract, but the output figure on those contracts hasn't been reviewed for as long as I've been at Meals on Wheels. So, if you've got 2,000 on your contract and your um, you're from a regional community where farms are now housing estates and the population's aging there and there's growth to try to get your output figure increased to receive more funding is really, really difficult and rarely happens. So, um, that that unit has been um, set and forgotten about. So, so it's a really big issue for these services in
that that's been in existence for quite some time. Correct. Yes. It's not a new thing or a No. new instruction by this government or
So, CHSP um, was the old HACC program which was in existence for about 40 years. So, when it transitioned to CHSP um, 15 to 20 years ago now um, yeah, the the the system sort of just evolved from that, but it got set and then forgotten. So, to get any additional um, funds for you know, demographic studies, I've been at Meals on Wheels for 15 years and I haven't seen one. I haven't seen one from the department come through. So, how do you know um, that what you're actually funding these services is adequate for the people that live in your communities?
I'm currently I'm just saying I'm currently over performing by 32%. Under performing? Over. Oh, over performing. That's they class it as you're an over performer.
So, you're basically your funding is
Uh, yeah, how do you You get a slap
across the wrist and told to put people on wait lists. Really?
So, I've got quite a few on a wait list. I'm lucky enough I come from a mining town that the mining industry, the local community, our IGA and community members support us. Otherwise, I wouldn't be able to um, budget to over perform if you know what I mean, but I've got to the point now where the books are closed. You're not
over performing, you're subsidizing.
bring us back to the if that's okay. Senator Cox, did you have one final
Thank you, Chair, for your intervention. I wasn't quite sure if I still had the call to continue my questions. Um, I on that topic then, um, do you make use of your co-contributions with respect to the funding of CHSP services that you provide? And can you explain to us a little bit how that system works currently? Yeah. Do you
want to talk about it at a local level? So, how you use the money you get from
funding is actually a lot lower than what it costs to you know, put that that meal out, deliver that meal. Um, currently our local meals are $16.17. That's the cost, the overall cost. We're funded for $14.13. So, there's obviously a true loss there. Our um, out-of-towners, which you know, as I said can go up to 70 70 k's, a return trip of 140 km, um, that sits at nearly $20 a delivery. So, um, it's it it's quite concerning that how are we going to sustain that? Now, if we go to Support at Home, um, there's no way that the client can actually sustain the additional costs which is the main testing costs. Which They'll they'll walk away and our service will close. So, that's I guess
the Yeah, I keep hearing that's already happening with the introduction of Support at Home. People are choosing between whether they need their shower once a week or three times a week, so they'll cut their meals. Which is really scary, I think.
But I think the point you just made about your mining community is fantastic that you know, that you're able to get the community Yeah. I was just saying it's a great thing though is that the community is supporting the community
>> Yes, but you're making my job difficult.
>> I would never try and do that.
Okay, thank you. Um, look, can I say thank you very much. We'll need to leave it there cuz we're already over time. Um, can I say thank you very much to representatives from Meals on Wheels for giving us your time today and also for your comprehensive submission to the inquiry. Your evidence is valuable and very much appreciated. Uh, there were some questions taken on notice, so the committee will report to the Senate on Wednesday, the 15th of April, 2026. And it's agreed that responses to questions on notice should be provided by close of business on 20th of February, 2026.
Um, are we I've just got another question which obviously I'm not going to ask now. Um, is is that something that I can put on writing in on notice in writing? >> Yeah, I just wanted to ask some questions about volunteers, so I'll pop
them to you in writing. And if you do want to have experience on the ground, speak to clients, speak to services to hear how Support at Home is affecting them, I'm more than happy to arrange that.