Senate Community Affairs Legislation Committee, , 0:00 to 25:46
The committee opens with procedural rules and addresses cross-portfolio matters, including disputes over the tabling of overdue reports and correspondence.
Topics: Parliamentary privilege, Orders for documents
Speakers: Dorinda Cox, Hon Anne Ruston, Blair Comley PSM, Wendy Askew, Unknown Speaker, Amy Laffan, Hon Malarndirri McCarthy, Speaker 5
We go. Thank you. I declare open the hearing of the community affairs legislation committee into the 2025 26 additional estimates. I begin by acknowledging the traditional custodians and lands in which we meet today and pay my respects to their elders past and present. I extend that respect to all Aboriginal and touristra islander people that are here today. The committee has fixed Thursday the 9th of April, 2026 as the date for the return of answers to questions taken on notice. The committee would appreciate if senators could please provide any written questions on notice to the secretariat by Thursday the 19th of February 2026. The committee's proceedings today will begin with the Department of Health, Disability, and Aging hold of portfolio and corporate matters. The committee will be conducting today's hearing in person and via teleconference. Understanding order 26, the committee will take all evidence in public session and this includes answers to questions on notice. I remind all witnesses that in giving evidence to the committee that they are protected by parliamentary privilege. It is unlawful for anyone to threaten or disadvantage a witness on account of evidence given to a committee and such action shall be treated by the Senate as a contempt. It is also a contempt to give false or misleading evidence. The Senate has endorsed the following test of relevant questions to the Senate estimates hearings. Any questions going to the operations or financial positions of the departments and agencies which are seeking funds in estimates are relevant questions for the purposes of estimates hearings. I remind all officers that the Senate has resolved that there are no areas in connection with the expenditure of public funds where any person has the discretion to withhold details or explanations from the parliament or its committees unless the parliament has expressively provided otherwise. The Senate has resolved also that an officer of a department of the Commonwealth shall not be asked to give opinions on matters of policy and shall be given reasonable opportunity to refer questions asked to to the officer to the off of the officer to superior officers or to a minister. This resolution does not preclude questions asking for explanations of policies or factual questions about when and how policies were developed. Witnesses are reminded of the Senate's order specifying the process by which a claim of public interest immunity should be raised. I incorporate the public interest immunity statement into Hansard. I also remind senators of their obligations under the behavior code for Australian parliamentarians to treat witnesses with dignity, courtesy, fairness, and respect. An officer called to answer a question for the first time should state their full name in the capacity in which they appear. I remind committee members and witnesses who are appearing via video conference who are not speaking to also mute their microphones. Live captions have been enabled for the entire duration of today's hearings. The feed will to be displayed on selected video conferencing monitors at the witness bench, at the back of the room, and in the waiting room. We ask witnesses to please inform the secretary if at any time during the hearing you're experiencing any issues, and they will endeavor to troubleshoot them as quickly as possible. I now welcome Senator the Honorable Malender McCarthy, the Minister for Indigenous Australians, representing the Minister for Health, Disability, and Aging. Minister, do you wish to make an opening statement?
>> Uh, good morning, chair. I too would like to acknowledge the traditional owners of this land and just uh also uh uh thank the committee for your time in advance uh in terms of the estimates process today.
>> Excellent. I also now welcome the secretary of the Department of Health, Disability, and Aging, Mr. today. Conley PSM. Um, Mr. Comley, do you wish to make an opening statement?
>> Uh, no. Thank you, chair.
>> Thank you, Mr. Connolly. I now call officers of the Department of Health, Disability and Aging, and whole portfolio on corporate matters and I invite questions. I think I'm going to uh Senator Ruston.
>> Good morning. Good morning, Secretary Minister. >> we're going to start our dance again, aren't we? >> Have I got any information?
We have prepared to answer your questions. So when you answer the questions, we will answer them in the
>> Um, okay. So the information that I've asked for, you'll just provide >> when I asked the questions
>> in the session. Yeah.
>> Okay. Right. So why didn't you just provide it to me? I mean, if you've got it, there was no reason why you couldn't have provided it.
>> Well, we've taken a lot of time to get the information together. We've prioritized the quanss. I think I was told we've in the last couple of months we've responded to over 3,000 quans. Um I've just checking with my team. All of those have been tabled today. So in the normal course of events we've responded to quanss and we're in a position to answer your questions. I I believe uh when you ask them.
>> Okay. All I'm just saying is that if you have the information, I've asked for the information. It would give me the opportunity to to read it so that I'm not asking for the information. I'm actually able to ask you questions about the information that you give me. So, in a sense, you've you've basically by not giving me the information now. Um, you have it put a another barrier in my way to actually progress my question. So, if you had the information, and you clearly have from your statement, I'm sort of at a loss to understand why you can't provide it to all enable me to actually question you on the information instead of spending all my time asking for the information I've already asked for that you've just admitted that you've got.
>> As I said, we're happy to answer the questions in the second. [clears throat]
I don't know that that was my point, Secretary, but um anyway um
>> before you get started, Senator Russ, just um I'm just conscious there's media um in the room. So I just um if I can read the spiel just before you kick off um that would be appreciated. Uh the media have requested to permission to film and take photos of proceedings and the committee has agreed to this. I remind the media that uh this permission can be revoked at any time and the media must follow the direction of the secretariat staff. The witness objects to filming um the committee will consider this um request. The media also reminded that they're not able to take images of uh senators or witness documents or of the audience. Media activity may not occur during suspensions or after adjourment of proceedings and copy of resolution three concerning the broadcasting of committee proceedings are available from the secretariat. Thank you. Sorry, Senator
Austin. Um thank you chair. Um I'm I'm loathed to do this. Um, but I feel like you've left me with no option but to ask read you your letter and ask you to provide the information But anyway, that's the choice you've left me with, I'm afraid, secretary. So um could you please provide a list of the parliamentary committee reports focused on the portfolio including but not limited to Senate and House of Representatives standing committee reports finalized since May 2022 that are currently awaiting a formal government response. Um could you please provide me the specific budget breakdown for each of the following measures each year over the forward estimates expanding the bulk billing incentive to all Australians the bulk billing practice incentive program. Could you please provide me the number of general practice participating in the program by state and territory and by federal electorate as of the 31st of January 26 with a breakdown including the total number of practices that were already bulk build prior to November the 1st 2025. The total number of practice that have commenced fully bulk build services um since the program began on the 1st of November 2025. um in relation to the average um patient contribution per service GP non-referred attendances the average patient contribution per service for GP non-referred attendances by federal elector as of uh the 1st of January 2026 in relation to age care could you please priide me in relation to supported home a breakdown by state and territory and by federal electorate of support at home packages released since the 1st of November 25 including the number of packages released at each support level the number of packages assigned and allocated to individuals at each support The number of individuals who were approved for a package at one support level but allocated a package at a lower support level broken down by approved level and allocated level and the average weight times between approval and allocation of uh for these individuals. The number of packages released as interim 60% packages broken down by approved level and the average waiting time between approval and allocation of their full package. the timeline for the additional 43,000 supported home packages scheduled to be released between 1 January and 30 June 2026. Uh the number of Australians on the national priority system as of the 31st of January 26 and please provide a national figure as well as broken down by a federal electorate. The latest number of Australians waiting to be assessed under the single assessment system age care assessment teams and regional assessment teams as of the 31st of June January 2026. the number of Australians currently receiving the Commonwealth Home Support Program as of the 31st of January 2026 and the number of Australians currently waiting to receive a Commonwealth Home support program as of the 30th of January 2026.
So, um we are ready to answer all those questions. Chair, I just take your guidance. Um we're in the crossportfolio part of the estimates. Many of those questions go to the specifics that would be handled under outcome one or outcome two or in fact outcome three because it's age care. Do you want us to answer those questions now or do you want us to wait until we've moved out of crossportfolio and into those um sessions?
>> I think they are relevant um within the the particular outcome areas just to clarify. I think the preference would be to ask those within there. Um I will um uh I will allow some questions uh that cover um uh some of the I think getting into the granular detail of you know what it is that um Senator Ruston might be looking for in relation to uh uh issues that um may require some um some more conversation. I think uh is much more this this area is is really more for corporate matters um I would think and rather than uh and high level conversation rather than um you know getting into the detail of what I think Senator Ruston has outlined in that. So my preference would be to move through this area quite quickly. uh and I have relayed that previously um uh to uh uh other members of this committee in the shaping of this program uh that we could spend more time within the outcome areas in order to do that. So I would ask for um that indulgence of other committee members if we move through this quite quickly we could actually get into um then having more time for those questions to be answered um by Senator Ruston as she's outlined in her letter.
Um thank you very much chair and obviously I respect um your direction. Um so could I ask Mr. commonly that at the start um of each of the sections that the information could be able to be tabled for all committee members to to see um so that we have it at the start of each section because obviously the officials will be here for those sections um in response to um the chair's um suggested direction um because you know quite frankly this looks like you are trying not to answer the questions. Now I'm not saying you are I'm just saying that's what it looks like. Um, so have we got all of our questions um, responded to so far that we put on not?
>> So I've been advised that all the quanss have been responded to.
>> When was that? Because they weren't certainly weren't all up yesterday.
>> Uh, I'm I'm not sure exactly when the last one, but I had
>> Rachel Bmano, chief operating officer. The last of them have been tabled this
morning. This morning? How many were tabled this morning, Miss B?
>> Uh, 17.
>> 17. And how many?
>> Out of three and a half thousand.
>> Yeah. Um, so the whole three and a half thousand. >> Okay. Um, so
>> how how quick they've been working. You know, they've been >> there's been an excessive amount of questions [clears throat] on notice. I do know that they have been
>> Well, I can assure you, chair, that an excessive amount of those questions didn't belong to me. Mine work.
>> Well, you might want to chat to your colleagues about that.
>> so, um, thank you. Um, I will get someone in my office to go and dig out the answers to those questions. We have
copies of those most recent ones if there's some you'd like us to tape knowing that they were new.
>> It only because Yeah. Um are they uploaded? >> I believe they are. Okay, cool. Because um the only reason they're saying that is because much of the information that I've requested in my letter, there's a lot of crossover with what were in the answers to those questions. So, you know, maybe at last I actually do have the answers to them.
>> One of your questions in your letter also went to uh parliamentary inquiry responses. So we have that answer for you in in this session.
>> Okay, that's great. Could if we could I don't want to read to me. I'd actually like it in
>> then to table that so that you >> that I can instruct secretary to give you a copy. Is that what we're suggesting? Sorry, I'm just trying to get the efficiency in this. >> Okay, I can do that. Thank you.
>> Okay. Um Oh, so when you say it's only very short, does that mean there not very many inquiries that haven't
>> That's correct, Senator. So Amy Lap people communication parliamentary division just just flagging that there are only four responses outstanding
>> four and what are they two
>> they are the state of diabetes malitis in Australia in 2024 the public governance performance and accountability amendment vaccine indemnity bill 2023 uh the age care bill 2024 provisions and the inquiry into the health impacts of alcohol and other drugs drugs in
>> Okay, that's great. That gives me an opportunity to look through all the ones that I don't think you've answered and then you'll be able to provide me the answers to them. >> Yep, that'd be great. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Um, look, just quickly um in looking through the um the contract notices, there was just one that jumped um out to me and it's contract notice number CN 4216195.
We'll get details on that one.
>> I All right. Do you want to wait to wait until you've done that?
>> Uh yes, we we'll need to look up the number and see which one it is. So 4216195.
>> Okay. Well, um that's me for cross portfolio, but can I just say that after I've had the opportunity to um to cross reference back on the reviews that I inquiries that I thought were still outstanding, um can I reserve the right to come back to those inquiries now that I've got that information at some stage. I'm assuming that you'll all be here for the day.
>> Yes, Senator.
>> That's fine.
>> All right. Easy. You got about 10
>> Oh, yeah. I'm happy to do that. Yep.
Sure. call? Sorry.
>> I am. Sorry. >> I'm just I'm just only because I'm conscious that Senator Allman Payne will not be here today due to illness and I'm just wondering there was a letter sent from her to you as well asking for information. Is the situation the same that you haven't got the information that can be tabled?
>> We we have taken the same approach I think as I said in December. If we have received a recommend a a request from the whole committee then we would um deal with that like a quan but we've received from individual senators so we've come prepared to answer questions but we weren't intending to table responses to those questions.
>> Okay. So previously I mean I've been on this committee now for seven years when we've actually done these letters when they've when we've turned up in the morning that document pile of documents has always been handed to us. So is what's changed in the department so that that's not um dealt with that way these
>> As I desri explained in December, we um across the whole of government, different committees have had different practices over the years. Um and given the weight of quanss and prioritizing those um we decided to um move to this approach where we would we'd come prepared to answer as many questions as we could. we'd make sure the quanss were done and as was pointed out we have three and a half thousand quanss this um period including obviously has been over the the Christmas holiday period to respond to those um you know obviously if we think about tableabling documents we have to go through a slightly different QA process so that's the reason we're taking this approach in the
>> okay it's um it's a bit disappointing though because it is always the stuff that we wanted to sit here and talk to you about during the day so it's the sort of information that gives us, you know, access to it. So, do in what's the best way to get it in the future so we actually have it before we start?
>> Well, if you if a question on notice is put to us, then we would respond in the usual way.
>> So, that could be uploaded on the morning like it has been today. So, again, we wouldn't have access to it until the day.
>> Well, not all quanss are uploaded on the last day. We thousand. >> So, we do we do work through them. And the other thing too is something that affects when quanss are released is >> there's different points when data becomes available and sometimes it's more helpful to wait to ensure you've got the most recent data. So they're all the considerations we're trying to take into account and trying to service the needs of the of the Senate.
>> Now I appreciate you're very busy, but that's fine. So because of that, I'm going to read Senator Orman Payne's letter into the record so that we've actually got it on record so that it can be p be um submitted as a response because otherwise if it's just being dealt with as correspondence, it's not going to come back. Is that is that what
>> Well, I think one way forward here would be if if if you wanted to on behalf of Senator Allman Payne effectively lodge
that as a question on notice, then we
would take it as a question on notice and respond. I mean we are if the questions are specifically asked in the day to the same material um we would obviously reply to it. Some of that material was probably covered by quanss that have already been tabled um and if there's any residual things that are not covered off we would take that as a we'll take that as a quan to assist the
>> Okay. So so I don't need to read it in. You will treat this letter as as a quan for all the
>> are you tableabling the letter? Is that
what you're saying? >> It's already been tabled and sent and
>> I think it's been No, it hasn't been
tabled. It was sent it was sent to the department but it has not been tabled.
>> It's been circulated to the committee as >> Yes.
>> So it has been published on the website.
I've just been told. >> So I think it is definitely
>> if there's if there's an agreement for it to be then responded to and treated as a question on notice. Um that
>> out of respect to Senator Allman Payne anyway. She's not here to be able
>> Nice of you to work together there. um soon ask you uh on that one. So um very happy for that to to occur. Thank you very much. Um we if that's all the questions from uh um taking over. >> Yes. >> Uh we will suspend for uh a couple of minutes to in order to us to be able to
move to outcome three on aging and H
>> disability and aging in relation to