Senate Community Affairs Legislation Committee, , 11:12:03 to 11:28:41
The National Commissioner for Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Children discusses the child protection crisis and the role of federal intervention.
Topics: First Nations, Child safety, Closing the Gap
Speakers: Senator Lidia Thorpe, Sue-Anne Hunter, Unknown Speaker, Ellie Whiteaker, Emily Devine
Thank you, Chair. Uh I have questions for the National Aboriginal and Terrace Strait Islander Children's Commissioner.
Great. I believe the Commissioner is also by video uh conference, Ms. Ann Hunter. Are you there? Yep, yes, CNN. Great. Do you mind just for the benefit of the handsard stating your name? And then I'll pass to Senator Thorpe for questions.
Yes. National Commissioner for Aboriginal and Toasty Island Children and Young People.
Senator Thorpe, I think. Sorry, Senator Thorpe. Yeah. To you.
Thank you, Chair. Thank you. Uh, and thank you for appearing tonight, uh, Commissioner. Um, as you know, I've been raising quite a number of issues with your office. That's not my officer's role. Uh and as a senator, you know, I can assist I can also assist with referrals and advocacy, So where should I be sending these 500 cases where they can actually expect to be listened to and supported because Thanks for your um recent correspondence as well regarding the experiences of our our children, Aboriginal Coastal Island children and young people across Australia.
Um the systems are meant to keep them safe.
Um sorry, Commissioner, can I just um remind you that I have 10 minutes or 15 minutes?
Okay, sorry, sorry, Senator.
I'd like to be able to ask a few more questions.
Uh we also get inquiries, and what we do is try to put them back to the jurisdictions and give them guidance on where to go because where's the schemic? And being able to coordinate that and hold the secret trip for that uh is really important in my role of how we can have better communications across jurisdictions. There's a lot of kids being taken, the number has risen under the Labour government. Oh, waiting to send a white mother while people are being harmed, and it's no, I could not agree. Uh well, I have a question on that, if I may.
If please please go ahead with the question, Senator Thorpe. Uh you're conducting a rapid review of the regional child protection system in the Pilbora. As National Commissioner, why are you only looking at this individual crisis when the whole system is stealing our children and placing them on child protection on the child protection to criminal justice system pipeline? Um while we're focused on circumstances and experience of children and young people in the Pilbara, we really anticipate these findings will have broader implications for child safety and practice
We're also including the bringing them home report and deaths in custody in that to pull out all the recommendation, what has been done and have some analysis of that for a national focus and see where that will lead us. different policies, different ways to get data, different ways of of of their level of safety or around what they consider locking up children or that's how the colony was Uh well, actually, it's not all of us, it's everybody in this country needs to adhere to child safety and the rights of the child to get better outcomes. So as national committee.
Commissioner then. Do you think there is a role for the federal government to intervene? Given the states and territories do their own thing, they are allowing the ongoing pedophilia and prostitution rackets to happen within residential care, out-of-home care. Do you do you think that it's important that the Feds step in now because you have you're working at the national level, or are you going around the states and territories to try and fix or dismantle or however you do things in each jurisdiction?
So I'll work with their children's commissioners, advocates and guardians in each state and territory, alongside the national children's commissioner from Deb Sabaras. The one thing that the Commonwealth can intervene is early intervention. That's where I see their role. Really getting in early, and whilst we're doing the other end in the states and territories of fixing what can say, I'll say remodelling the system or dismantling the system, whichever way you want to put it, because we know by statistics it is not working.
Well, it wasn't designed that way to work. Otherwise, our children would be home with their families. So Commissioner. When I recently sought your support for a national inquiry into child protection systems to establish suitable avenues for the federal government to fix this designed uh harmful system. You said that these matters are for states and territories. Then what is the point of your role if apparently there is nothing to do at a federal level? Like what can happen at a federal level with your power as the federal commissioner for children and young people?
So I have my powers to do inquiries and recommendations, but I know I always say recommendations to sit on the shelf, but how do we do that and make change and that's monitoring? I also uh am going to monitor the safe and supported, and so we'll have a yearly report about how that's going uh and where we're meeting those targets. I guess the other uh part is that and I'll say it again the early intervention part is so important. Whilst we're working whilst I'm working with states and territories around how we implement all those recommendations that are sitting there on the shelves.
So are you working with government on this? Um what would early intervention look like? Uh say for the Northern Territory who've wound back the Aboriginal Child Placement Principle, Queensland who are about to do that. Uh and all of these harms being done to children.
Hi, Senator Emily Devine, your assistant commissioner. Um so as you know, the Commonwealth is um working on the three national frameworks that our ways, the national plan and second supported, so a lot of their funding and coordination actually does to those um frameworks to provide families and children and communities with that early intervention prevent early intervention prevention.
Okay.
Final question, Senator Thorpe.
Do I get another go, Chair? Or is this it?
Well, the committee intends to wrap up at 8 30. Well, so no, this will be your last go.
Well, uh, could I have some extra time, please?
How much extra time do you think you'll need? Two more questions, go ahead.
Well, I have plenty more, but given our being shut down, then I'll have to go with what you say, Chair, given you're running the meeting. So thank you. Yes, my next question now. Thank you. Uh Commissioner, 20% of children who died in Queensland in 2025, 26 were known to child protection. In New South Wales in 2024, the rate was 21%. These Aboriginal and non-Aboriginal children. What are you doing nationally to ensure that no more children will die? No more families will lose their loved ones. Or is it uh is it in your remit to examine how all children can be better protected?
So I think yeah, sorry, Senator, did you want to finish? So I think I heard you ask a question before about whether whether my mandate includes all children. And could I just say that if we get it right for Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander children, and we work the systems for them? I I believe we get it right for every child. I don't I do talk, I do um my remit is Aboriginal Torres Strait Islander children, but I believe my remit is all children. That's why I work closely with the National Commissioner, Commissioner Sparis, because together uh we can make better outcomes, I believe, and we're setting some agendas at the moment around how we better. I don't have just because I'm one position um senator, and I tend to working with all the commissioners, advocates, guardians, all of government, uh, around how we make outcomes better. We should not lose children to systems. We just should not. It's just heartbreaking and harrowing, and every day, recently in the media, it seems to be you know it's not a fun job. I do it because I want change like yourself, and I'm I will work with whoever I need to work with to make change for our children.
Thank you. Um, children uh, and look, I I don't uh I'm not questioning your commitment and your compassion or your work ethic. I'm just questioning the amount of deaths that are happening of children in this country from every child protection system that is not broken, they are designed to cause harm, and no one's doing anything at a federal level. So if the Aboriginal child placement principle is taken from the Northern Territory, then taken from Queensland, then there needs to be federal legislation that ensures that that doesn't happen. And the reason that I questioned um non-aboriginal children is because one of the reasons I've been given to not have this inquiry is that the country's too racist. Well, it's not just going to focus on our kids, it's going to focus on all kids. So I just want to make that point, and my question is children are regularly taken from their families across jurisdictions. My office gets calls to help about this, to help out about this. Who is monitoring the continuation of care across jurisdictions who follows up when there are discrepancies between what different state and territory departments promise and fail to deliver to keep children safe? Are you working on this at all with states and territories?
Yes, a part of that is the states and territory are the children's advocates and guardians' roles. Uh some of them have and we all have different powers in the each state and territory. One of the things we want is who is the accountable when mapping that at the moment, who is the account, who's accountable for these children when they fall between gaps? Because if we're referring people on, we want to make sure we're referring them to the right people. And at some points we get the run around, so I can't imagine what it's like for others. So we make sure we want to make sure we know who the accountability authority is in each state and territory that we can send people to directly and make sure that they're supported by their by my state and territory counterparts.
Thank you.
Okay, well I don't have any more time, so um, I'll put the rest on notice. Thanks, Chair, thanks, Commissioner. Have a great night.