Senate Community Affairs Legislation Committee, , 2:00:00 to 2:27:40
Discussion regarding the development of new standards for the psychology workforce, addressing stakeholder concerns about trust, the timeline for implementation by 2027, and Minister Butler's role in the process.
Topics: Health, Workplace relations
Speakers: Hon Anne Ruston, Hon Jenny McAllister, Blair Comley, Justin Untersteiner, Natalie Bekis, Ellie Whiteaker
The role under the national law, it is the role of the board to actually set the standard. So that is their role, reporting to the Ministerial Council. I think that we absolutely take your point and we take the point made very quickly from the stakeholders that there is further work to make sure that everybody understands what is the way forward, what are the various models and options that fit and how universities are actually able to implement this standard. And I've heard loud and clear around that and the universities needing to understand that. Health ministers have not asked for this to come forward now in December. We've got time till 2027, so we make the commitment to work collaboratively with ARPA and the and the psychology board to get this reform right.
Senator Roberts has some more questions. I understand you do two. How much longer do you think you have?
Um I've still got a few more after this. So if you want me to just finish with this one and then hand over the let's do that. Okay. I suppose I just want to put on the record that there has been there's a breakdown in in trust and confidence has occurred here, um, which I think is absolutely vital to be restored if we're going to go forward in making sure that we do solve for us workforce that we know is one that's in massive demand at the moment. So I cannot stress strongly enough that this issue needs to be resolved before any final decision has been made. Um and I'm incredibly concerned that we are where we are. Um so close to making decisions and we've got this problem. So I'm very heartened by the fact that you're saying that there's going to be a whole heap of work done between now and when ministers meet again to resolve this issue, and I'm keen to work with you to make sure that that happens. But I just want to put on the record why I think some of these concerns um have been heightened by some of the stakeholders is um I know and I've had I've heard recordings of this, but I'm not going to attribute it to anybody, but you know, recordings where people have have in at public forums said the deal is done. Uh it's what the minister wants. Um that you know, in and if you don't accept what the minister wants, and you know the minister will go and deliver whatever the minister chooses to. The the narrative, the the the way it sounds, it is actually quite threatening that and it also has led to a view that the minister is what it's the minister that's asking for these particular changes that are being proposed. That is not healthy for the minister, and it's also not healthy for a very important sector to believe that they're being bullied and heavied by the minister. Now I'm not suggesting for a minute that that's the case, but I'm just saying that some of the things that I've heard um sound a bit like that. So it just I highlight that only to highlight the importance of resolving this issue before you put a paper to the Minister's meeting that is going to cause long-term ongoing angst and division in the inner section. Senator, can I just make it fine? Yep.
Um, you alluded to um the posture of the minister. Um I said no, I think. For the avoidance of doubt, I'll put that view on the record. Uh Minister Butler and Health Ministers appropriately have asked advice from the appropriate bodies. Um, they are undertaking that work, and as you've heard from Ms. Bekis, um, they will take the time that is necessary to do it properly. I think uh Mr. Comley has some additional information to provide to you also.
No, I just wanted to reiterate that it's certainly not the case that the Minister is the one with the preordained view. I'm aware of that. And it's also actually Minister Butler who's the one who's been probably pushing hardest to have the extra time to make sure this is fully considered. So we always know that in areas to do with with workforce, um, there are there are a range of views. We were talking in a previous answers about the expedited international pathway. Um that that was not uh uniform consensus through through all the bodies, but it's actually been a very successful process, starting with GPs and moving beyond that. We talked about nurses and you mentioned the desire to bring midwife on. So I just wanted to really emphasise that it's actually Minister Butler who's been keen to take extra time to make sure this is right and we get the right consultation through the process.
And I made no accusation, I was simply putting on the record that that is the view, and and in the minister's own interest, he should be aware that that's the view so that he can correct and make sure he gives the necessary assurances. I mean it's nice that you have, but I mean the minister also needs to have the opportunity to be able to respond to this because the accusation's been made that this is what he's done, and I just wanted it on the record, so I had the opportunity to do it.
Perhaps just to say again. So you've heard from the Secretary and you've heard from myself that the government's view is that we are seeking advice from the profession, and we were doing it in the most appropriate of ways, which is to work with the bodies that have responsibility for these issues. We understand that it should be undertaken um in a complete way, and if that means that it takes a little longer, we accept that, and as Mr. Comley has indicated, that is the view of Minister Butler.
Senator, can I just add just one last final comment if you don't mind? Because I do think it's worthwhile. I know you've said that you're not saying that those some of those comments are true, but I do want to defend that position in saying that this is a really complex issue. Uh, this is something that's been talked about for decades. It's not an easy one, so it doesn't surprise me that there are mixed views. Um however, I have I have strong confidence uh in the consultation process that has been undertaken. It's been really robust and significant. There's significant reports that have been published. Um and I certainly uh uh I have not heard or seen any evidence that would be comments made suggesting the minister's directing this because this is an independent report, uh and I certainly confirm that in saying all of that. I don't disagree that there's noise, and we need to work through that, and we need to take time to work through that, and that's our commitment.
Yep. And I suppose you know, just finally to your point about strong confidence, and clearly you have strong confidence, but there is not strong confidence across the broader um stakeholder group, and um, and I'm heartened that the minister has has put on the record that uh more time will be taken to try and make sure that we work through this process in a way that satisfies um as best we can all the stakeholders to deliver the outcome that we're seeking to deliver. So I look forward to seeing what comes from here. So thank you.
Thank you. Well, we're coming up on just before 11 when our schedule break is. So what we might do is take the 15 minute break and come back just before 11.15, and then we'll go straight to Senator Roberts for his questions. So the committee will adjourn until 11 13. Good morning.