Senate Community Affairs Legislation Committee [Part 2], , 2:47:42 to 2:58:19
Discussion regarding the decision to redirect funding for prostate cancer nurses from the Prostate Cancer Foundation of Australia to the McGrath Foundation, focusing on the rationale of the Australian Cancer Plan and streamlining service delivery.
Topics: Health, Grants administration, Government spending
Speakers: Senator Anne Ruston, Dr Liz Develin, Senator Ellie Whiteaker, Dr Marcelle Noja, Unknown Speaker, Blair Comley
Recommence uh with outcome one, health policy access and support and crossportfolio indigenous matters. We're joined again by Senator the Honorable Jenny McAllister, Minister for the National Disability Insurance Scheme, representing the Minister for Health, Disability, and Aging. Uh we just for the um benefit of new senators in the room um we [clears throat] had listed the center for disease control and the national rural health commission for this evening. We've let them go home because we don't believe we'll get to them tonight. They'll be here tomorrow if you do have questions for them. Uh so I call officers from the department of health, disability and aging in relation to outcome one and I will perhaps go to Senator Ruston for the first round of questions.
>> Sure. Thank you. Um, so, uh, I'd just like to ask some questions about the and maybe if the people could answer the questions in relation to the gutter seal rates could be ready to go next. Thank you very much. So, I'm just wondering um what is the rationale behind or what was the rationale behind the decision to um redirect funding um for specialist prostate cancer nurse funding from PCFA um to the McGra Foundation.
>> Good evening, Senator. We probably need to start with the Australian Cancer Plan. >> Yes. which really uh presented a vision for a far more coordinated nationally consistent sort of approach to both navigation and support and a strengthened workforce and it was really trying to reflect that they with a [clears throat] vision of more people could access support from a commonwealth funded nurse. They were also uh seeking to get more consistent support across cancers and sort of geographic areas and for a national model of care for this sort of cancer support. Um it also talks about streamlined approaches for health services in terms of uh you know in the in the previous models a range of different types of organizations uh funding health services for different types of cancer nurses. So I think the seed was set with the Australian cancer plan. So in uh late 2023 the government signaled to the organizations that were providing cancer nurses of the [clears throat] intention to this more coordinated approach.
>> Okay. Thanks. Were there any concerns about the way um PCFA was running the
>> Not to my knowledge, Senator. No.
>> Okay. Um so um so the decision was purely around the the streamlining of a of a service as opposed to there being any concerns. Um so I'm just interested I mean PC FA was awarded their grant in 2024. Um has anything changed since that time when they were awarded the grant that would have um been a catalyst for them no longer providing this service to the people they represent?
uh this change to the model was signaled to the sector as I said in late 2023. We have seen the transition of melanoma nurses and lung cancer nurses and the prostate ones are the next ones uh to join the model.
>> Okay. So when was PCFA formally notified of the decision?
>> Uh Senator, so there were discussions in late 2023. their funding had been extended for a short time and and that does expire in the middle of next year. Uh in terms of the confirmation of the expiration of that planned funding at the end of June 2027, I think it was myself and Dorothy Keefe, Professor Dorothy Kee from the uh Cancer Australian that spoke to the chair and the CEO of PCFA in August, late August this year.
>> Okay. So in in 2023 were um you're saying that PCFA were notified of the intention of this change to come about. Is that correct?
>> There were discussions with a range of sector organizations around the government's intention [clears throat] to move to this model. >> Uh at that time I do understand the PCFA expressed their concerns about that and their funding uh was subsequently extended to the point it is now.
>> Okay. So perhaps back to the original question, when was PCFA formally notified of the decision to not continue their funding after the extension and for the nurses to um move >> into a different
>> on the 31st of August this year.
>> 31st of August this year. So that was the first time that they were formally informed of the change. Um, so how many prostate cancer nurses operating under PCFA program are currently funded by the federal government?
>> I think it's 60.5 FTA equivalent.
>> 60.5 FTE. [clears throat] Um, so are you aware um whether PCFA um will continue to fund or to employ nurses not funded through the Commonwealth after the expiry of the agreement or is that not something you're aware of?
>> That will be a matter for the PCFA. But
are you aware whether that's in the intention or not or
>> uh I haven't we haven't the PCFA has not uh wanted to meet with the department since we spoke to them around the funding arrangements. Oh
>> okay. Um so does PCFA hold any intellectual property or other rights in relation to the program they've been delivering?
>> Uh they may well to the program they are delivering. Uh the funding is transitioning to the McGra Foundation as per the government's announcement. These nurses are employed by local health services and hospitals. They're not employees of the Prostate Cancer Foundation.
>> Okay. Um so what is the um is there a transactional plan for the nurses and for the patients that are likely to be impacted by this?
>> So in terms of the nurses, as I'd mentioned, these are employees of the local health service. So we'll it will be up to them to choose how they continue under the program. Certainly the funding will be transitioning to McGra. So there is every opportunity for all of those nurses currently funded through the Commonwealth to transition to uh the McGra funded positions.
M um I'm just reading um at the moment from um the Australian Cancer Nursing and Navigation Program procet nurses program and the grant um is stated the uh the published state of the 19th of February 2024 and just note in there it says that um the eligible organization was determined on the basis that PCFA had extensive experience and a proven track record on delivering high quality prostate cancer specialist nursing care and is highly regarded across the cancer sector. Uh the government has supported PCFA by funding the PCN program since 2013. PCFA has a proven track record of consistently demonstrating and it goes on to um to to list um the the reasoning behind um the allocation. So sort of probably just keen to understand I mean you sort of can understand why PCFA are um somewhat bewildered given that they had been given such high praise in the the continuation of the grant funding um that they now find themselves in a situation where um you know and they administered a significant program as you would well be aware um about how you know c can you is the how is the department seeking to understand obviously some very um strongly held concerns about why when they thought they were doing a fabulously good job that they've had this program taken away from their administration for the people that they're specifically set up to serve. I suppose
>> uh Senator I can understand any organization's disappointment when government funding changes and that was certainly expressed to Professor Keith and I through the CEO and the chair of the organization when we met with them. I think the most important thing to remember is that the same amount of nurses, the same amount of funding and these will be dedicated prostate nurses will be available to the community under
the new model. Yeah, I I don't think um anybody's questioning and I'm well I'm certainly not questioning um the McGrath Foundation. They do a fantastic job and they're a first class organization. I'm specifically talking about PCFA um who quite clearly the government previously has thought was a fantastic organization and has said so in their um their documentation in terms of awarding the grants to that organization. So, I'm just wondering um is anybody aware of whether the the minister has met directly with PCFA to explain this
>> I don't have all of Minister Butler's diary details in my mind. Senator,
>> Mr. Conway, are you aware whether the minister's met with PCFA directly?
>> Uh, so I'm not aware, Senator.
>> Okay. Um,
>> I think Sorry, Senator Ruston. I just received some information. Sorry, some water went down the wrong way. I gather the minister's office has met.
>> Okay. So, the minister has not maybe um maybe you could text back and ask um if you would commit um to meeting with [clears throat] the PCA representatives and let us know what his answer to that
>> I think Minister Butler can make his own diary decisions. I won't make those for
>> Okay. Okay. Well, I I think that probably those [cough] people that um rely on the services of PCFA would probably like um perhaps [snorts] a more solid answer than than that. Um could have we got the gutill that you >> Hi. So, I'm just wondering um this was obviously a great success story for for um of recent times. So, just wondering what are the vaccination rates for