Senate Environment and Communications Legislation Committee, , 9:36:00 to 10:18:34
The hearing concludes with an examination of dam projects, Murray-Darling Basin water buybacks, and Antarctic shipping logistics.
Topics: Infrastructure, Water management, Climate change
Speakers: Malcolm Roberts, Malcolm Southwell, Varun Ghosh, Mark Darrough, Unknown Speaker, Christine MacRae, David Pocock, Dr Simon Banks, Edwina Johnson, Hon Murray Watt, Mike Kaiser, Peter Whish-Wilson, Phil Coates, Speaker 49, Speaker 54, Speaker 55, Speaker 56
>> Thank you, Senator Henderson. Um, we are now in a position to excuse the B Bureau of Meteorology. Thank you for your attendance here today, your evidence, and the work that goes into preparing for it. Um, at this point, we move to outcome four. which is um relating to in shorthand water and I'll just give officials a few moments to come to the table of broadcasting. If you just pause for a moment or two that would be wonderful. I welcome um officials from outcome four Thank you for your attendance. outcome four relates to improve the health of rivers and wetlands, enhance the sustainable and efficient productive use of Australia's water resources. Um outcome 4.1 um is protect, restore and sustainably manage Australia's water resources and that includes the comwalth environment water holder and the Mari Darling Basin Authority. Um I welcome Dr. Andrew McConville um from the uh the chief executive officer of Marid Darling Basin, Dr. Simon Banks, Comwalth Environmental Water Holder, and ask if either of you wish to make opening statements.
>> Uh Andrew McConnell, Senator, Chief Executive, the MDBA, thank you for the promotion there and my academic qualifications, but uh no, no opening >> Thank you, uh chair uh Simon Banks, Commonwealth Environmental Water Holder and I don't have an opening statement. Thank you.
>> Okay. Thank you. In which case, we'll proceed to to questions. Apologies for the error on the title. Um, Senator Roberts,
>> thank you, Chair. Thank you all for beering again today. Some brief questions about water infrastructure. I'm told this needs to be asked here. Paradise Dam. Is anyone familiar with >> Oh, yes. >> Oh, wonderful.
>> Oh, yes. >> What is the question?
>> Ready for them. Okay. Paradise Dam, new The last update we can find on this project is the conduct of foundation geological mapping conducted by Sunwater in November of 2024. Has anything progressed beyond that? And if so, what?
>> I think while the officials are getting ready, I mean, this is a Queensland government project. So um you know there will be a limit to the role that this department has in that project but obviously the officials can share whatever they have.
>> As Senator Mark Darrow, branch head of the National Water Grid Branch. Um the detailed business case was finalized in July 2025 um and is being considered by the Queensland government. The Queensland government hasn't submitted a proposal for the new project with the revised dam wall arrangements. Um, Infrastructure Australia published its evaluation of the detailed business case in September
>> Who has the who who's funding it in what proportions
>> for the the >> new damn wall? Uh the Australian government made a commitment of $600 million. $50 million of that is contracted with Queensland to deliver the an early enabling works and the detailed business case. Um and the balance of the funding uh remains available in the budget.
>> How what do you expect the total cost to >> How much will the Queensland government
pay? I think it's it's it's on the record that the an estimate of $4.4 billion.
>> So the vast majority will come from the Queensland government.
>> Uh Senator, the Queensland government hasn't hasn't put forward a proposal to the Australian government for funding.
>> So the just in case you're unaware, Senator, the the commitment that our government made of $600 million was 50% of the funding for the Was it going to be a new dam originally? Uh it was
originally to reinstate the old dam wall. Um but when the early work was done on that, it uh somewhat um realized that it couldn't be restored and that they needed to do a new damn wall downstream. And so the price has has been revisited. That's also some some time ago. So the the estimates have gone up through escalation factors in any case.
>> So you're waiting on the Queensland government to get the total cost.
>> Yes, Senator.
>> Okay. And what is there any formula for funding of that from federal compared to state?
>> Uh no senator. The >> The national water grid infrastructure um investment framework um puts in place arrangements whereby uh states and territories can ask for up to 50% of funding for um capital and construction projects. But uh there is no formulaic based um the Australian government's contribution is is a a matter that's decided by the government the the level of the contribution that the Australian government would make and it's informed by the business case evaluation uh from infrastructure Australia uh the proposal from Queensland and advice from
the department. So in summary, it's waiting on the Queen. You're waiting for the Queensland government.
>> Uh yes, Senator.
>> Yeah. Okay. Thank you. Let's move on to Uranad Dam. It was canceled by the Albanesei Labor government in 2022. I understand. We have the preliminary business case which was released. I don't have the final business case and environmental impact study which I'm assuming showed why the project was not feasible. Were these completed? Uh
Senator on Uranadam um the Australian government committed uh 22.65 the then Australian government to support the business case environmental approvals and geotech. Um on 16 December 2022 the delivery agent B and River Utilities announced that we withdrawn uh the scheme from environmental assessment processes in Queensland. Was there any
reason given?
>> Um, Senator, I'd need to take that on notice. The funding, the funding that was actually in the budget for construction of Uranad Dam uh was within the um infrastructure portfolio, not not the water elements that transferred to DQ.
>> Was the business who in whose hands is the final business case?
>> Senator, I'll need to take that on notice.
>> Okay. and also the environmental impact
>> Uh again, I'll take that on notice, Senator. We we encourage uh jurisdictions to publish business cases that the Australian government contributes to, but ultimately the um Commonwealth State relations um and the funding arrangement that we have puts ownership of those documents in the hands of the of the jurisdiction and [clears throat] uh it it's ultimately a matter of them uh for them to decide whether or not they >> That's the state. Yes, but we we encourage in all all cases that it be published.
>> So if you have access to it, may we have copy, please? Uh
>> Senator, I need to take it on notice.
>> Yep, that's fine. Um, if there's a if there's a if the business case says there's not enough use for the water, then are you aware that there's a project iron boomerang or actually Capricornia steel which is a large project. I won't go into the details which would involve putting a steel mill at Colinsville.
>> Uh, so Senator I can talk more broadly about the um about the Berdic Basin of which you part the Uranana area is part of. So the Commonwealth is um is partnering with with Queensland on the Berdacen regional water assessment and that process is underway looking at a basinwide assessment of um demand and supply for water in the in the catchment.
>> I don't expect you to know this, but I'll ask it anyway. Um are you aware of the potential for a steel mill at Collinsville and other steel mills in
from newspapers.
>> Thank you chair for that one. So you can release them now.
>> Oh wonderful. Is that that all the questions you have?
>> I've got more questions as I said for the Commonwealth Environmental Water Holder.
>> Oh, well this is I think they're they're all part of the same outcome. So we'll do it do them in series if that's okay. Malcolm press on May I just ask how many how much longer you will need do you think in total?
>> Probably another 10 minutes. How much is the remaining water for the environment in giga liters? What what's outstanding? How much more will we claim
>> Uh well, there's a couple of different categories. So maybe one of the officials can give you the updated figures.
>> So Mr. South. >> One moment. Senator Malcolm South, head of the acting head of the water infrastructure investment division. So, uh, you're referring to the 450 g of environmental water. Mr. Senator was
292.
292.
>> That's the remaining water for the environment as I understand it. Am I
do you mean the sustainable diversion Sustainable diversion limit, senator, is that what you
>> I mean the total buybacks yet to be
>> Okay. Um, so perhaps if I can start by answering the question around the 450 gig liters environmental waters. I think that might go to part of your question. Uh, and we're around halfway towards that target center. So as of 31 December, we've recovered 221 gig liters. um towards that and that's a mixture of purchases and infrastructure as well as other [clears throat] mechanisms. Um I'm hoping that that goes to your question.
>> So you've got about 229 left to go.
>> Correct. We're about halfway. Correct,
Minister. The New South Wales Legislative Council has voted unanimously to call on the federal government to convene a Royal Commission into water. Now, your own party, the Labor Party in New South Wales, voted for this measure. Do you support a federal royal commission and if not on what basis do you disagree with your state counterparts?
>> Uh I'm not sure that it was a unanimous vote of the legislative council. I I did I am aware that there was a vote of the legislative council. Um I it's not my view that we need yet another real commission into water policy on the Murray Darling Basin. We um have, you know, I I recognize there are some independents in particularly in the New South Wales parliament who support that. Um we've got this year we have several reviews underway around the future management of the Murray Darling. You may have seen just last week the Murray Darling Basin Authority released a discussion paper about the next version of the plan. My view is that we should proceed with the work that is already intended rather than launch an expensive repeat of a royal commission.
>> Thank you. The third review of the water for the environment special account report has found that the money in the account used to buy back water will only last until December 2026. How much more money is needed to complete the 450 gig lers of buybacks the Labor government is intent on
Senator, uh in terms of the money required, it's uh traditionally we wouldn't give you that figure because it's a commercial tender process in terms of the amount of money. So the money is available inside the contingency reserve to complete that uh complete that in terms of the government's commitment to 450 gig liters. Uh but in terms of the water purchasing component of that uh my understanding um is that that is a figure that that is not for publication
because sellers to find out.
>> Exactly.
>> So Senator Malcolm South will just add to that the reason is we are trying to maximize um Senator to just to add to that we're trying to maximize the value for taxpayers through this process.
According to the report at 1.1.1, recent purchases have averaged $5,040 per megaliter. Water for actual farming is uneconomic above $100 to $200 a megaliter depending on the crop. Is your buyback forcing up the trading price of water to ludicrous levels, forcing family businesses off the land?
Senator, I'll start and perhaps ask for some of my colleagues to to come to the table, but um Senator, we're very much well aware of uh that water purchasing has a an impact. Um as that's as as you're aware as part of the process for um initiating a purchase program, there is a consider consideration of soio economic impacts. Um and uh that process is is a routine part of our decision making as as for conducting these water
water trading prices December quarter 2025 are now over $500 per megalit which is 250% higher than the same quarter 10 years ago. Both quarters had similar rainfall below long-term average with some areas in drought. So they've got similar infl in in inflow per uh into the period. If water prices have not been inflated by buybacks, what has inflated them?
>> I'll ask my colleague too.
>> Christine MacRae, acting branch head for water recovery. So water prices particularly the temporary water prices that I think you're referring to Senator which are that 2 to500 per megal liter as for annual purchase of water as opposed to permanent purchase of water which is what we focus on in the department which uh permanent access is more like buying a house as opposed to renting a house. So of course it is more expensive to to buy a house outright permanently than it is to perhaps buy that that house for example for 12 month periods. So that's that's the price difference you initially mentioned which is we're paying on average $5,400 per megalit but temporary trades are in that $200 per megalit range. I think over the last 10 years there has been many shifts in irrigated agriculture uh as well as water reform that has led to a change in pricing. This is can be uh compounded by many things including
>> affected the market though.
>> There is an impact of the government purchasing water uh on on prices in the market. Uh there's many reports that do talk about that but in many cases while there is an initial impact that does settle down initially um after a a period of time. Yes. to get to this
point so far. You've bought up water that farmers didn't need andor you've bought up water that farmers did need but who needed more your money more than they needed the water. You've bought up water that only appears in a flood and now you're doing now you're down to buying water that's needed to grow food and fiber to feed and clothe the world. What price do you expect to pay for the remaining acquisition?
>> Uh Senator, we run open and competitive tender processes. Um those processes are underway. Um, as I said earlier, we seek to to obviously maximize the return for the taxpayer through this process and we will evaluate those purchases based on those offers that are made and and determine them based on value for money.
The report at 1.1.2 also found current funding was insufficient to make up for the damage your buybacks are doing to rural and regional communities. What increase in allocation will you need to provide just compensation for the loss damage you're causing to rural
Uh thanks Senator Edwina Johnson acting head of division water policy division. Um so senator uh the government sustainable communities program is providing $300 million over four years for community adjustment and assistance and that was something that was referenced in the um third um uh report. Um and it it found that the uh sustainable communities program has the potential to offset some impacts in these communities that receive adjustment assistance. But because of course that program is just still in the early phases of uh delivery um the WHISA the third report which was tabled last year found it was too early to assess the outcomes but that's certainly an important program when we think about community adjustment assistance in this
If I could just add Phil Kratch head mang bas in economics evidence and engagement that section 1.1.2 of WH wea where it refers to uh funding sufficiency is talking about constraints measures not the um sustainable communities program or programs to mitigate socioeconomic impacts.
>> So what do you mean by that? uh
constraints is a whole different program under basin plan which is about not my area of expertise but um which is about achieving environmental outcomes.
Senator on that one uh the report did find that the uh the funding available to the 31st of December this year 2026 uh is sufficient for the projects that are likely to be delivered in this period. And so um as others can talk to constraints uh is a um is quite a significant body of work that can be done but for the projects that are underway uh you'll see in that 1.1.2 uh it did find that the funding available uh is sufficient for those projects expected to be delivered this calendar year.
Um, Senator Roberts, >> may I just inquire as to the the remaining and if there's any possibility of putting some of those on notice. I'm not going to
>> I'm nearly finished, I think.
>> Okay.
>> I think that'd be short answers. >> Minister, what specifically will the remaining quantity of? Well, actually, we know it's 229 gig liters for the environment be used for >> Yep.
>> Well,
>> what are the KPIs? what environmental need is so critical that farming needs to be so damaged by these ban.
>> I can probably start that. >> Sure, Senator. I'll start and then hand over to my colleague Simon Banks. Um the the water purchasing and water recovery for that 450 years target, Senator, is to to acquire water to support environmental outcomes to to meet the basin plan. Dr. Banks can talk through the detail of of what that water is used for, but effectively to deliver outcomes that support the
>> Yeah, thank you. Uh thank you, Senator. So uh any water that is recovered through the um the program entitles us to a greater share of uh water in any particular year that we can then use uh to return [clears throat] uh to the environment. So we're able to um support
uh uh variation in flows support the movement um of native fish building of condition of uh of native fish. have been able to support water bird breeding uh which again is about how do we how do we improve the overall basin outcomes uh for the environment. So um I I can assure you there'll be uh plenty of opportunity to use uh the available water and my jobs uh to make sure we get the best out of the water um that we're responsible for managing.
>> Okay, let's move on. Thank you. referencing the New South Wales Supreme Court case of Doyles Farm Produce Proprietary Limited ATF, Clardale Family Trust and others versus Marid Darling Basin Authority and an or Mari Darling Basin Authority class action. This is claiming up to $1.5 billion in damages. Have you made a contingent liability for any sum at all in connection with this case or any
uh standard. So the >> the court action has has been completing and we are awaiting uh judgment of that and we work with the AGS um through normal insurance processes. So there's not very much more I can say on that.
>> so you haven't made a contingency just relying on insurance.
>> It's the it's the task of uh government's insurer to uh make those contingencies. Senator.
>> Okay, Minister. This report discusses the $3 million allocated by the Labor government to the states for development of a proposal to buy farms with water allocations through intermediaries, which would I am sure would include union superanuation funds. Those corporations would then operate the farm. Minister, where did the $3 million come from? And how does purchasing water allocation for a government farm make it environmental water?
>> Uh, unless if one of the officials knows the answer, I'll have to take that on
notice. Anyone last question? Didn't Chairman Mau and uh Joseph Stalin already try that? Minister, I'm I'm just curious. Once you have destroyed family farms to the Marid Darling Basin plan and emptied out the bush, what will Australians in your cities and your millions of new arrivals
Uh well the the government's view is that the long-term health of the Murray Darling Basin system and the uh future of the agriculture industry in that region relies on better environmental management of water in the basin. >> So we think we think this is essential to future food security.
>> I'm sure many many farmers don't agree with you on that one.
time this evening. Some questions about the uh upper mariju drought operating framework. Uh great to hear that the first release has happened. So thanks everyone at the have some questions relating to the relation to how much water has been released and when it's one of the there's very little transparency as to water releases into the upper biji from um Tentangra and I think given the suoid um review process I'd love to see a bit more sort of visibility over
>> start but the as I think you're aware Senator we now have arrangements in place for the release of that water that's um to meet the immediate commitments around the upper Marbiji uh and to release of water that will support um droughtlike conditions based off the drought operating framework um uh as you said um the longerterm arrangements relate to the swoid review that is underway and there's a consultation occurring ing with community and stakeholders around that and that will determine the longerterm um actions that will support uh environmental outcomes in that >> and in terms of um releases to date around volumes that um my understanding is that the water started being released I think it was back on the 30th of
January. So I can answer that if you like. Tanya Conman here. Uh so on the 31st of January, water was released under the snowy hydro water release agreement. Um and there were 15 megal lers of water released from Tentangra under Minigan crossing trigger by Snowy Hydro. And then again in February the 4th there was water released. Um it turned out to be about five megal liters per day from Tantangra under again the Midang crossing trigger. Um and I understand that there has been um continuing monitoring of lobs hole and there should be some well there may well be water release further in this.
>> Thank you. So there's 15 megs and then you said five megs a day. How many days was that?
>> I don't have that information but I can take that.
>> Maybe I'll notice. That'd be great. And how how did they arrive at 15 megal liters? How's that some being done?
>> That would be something that we would have to confer with.
>> Senator, it's based on the triggers that are in the drought operating framework is is the answer to um I think I've got that here somewhere. But um that that sort of sets out the arrangements around what has to be released and why and to meet certain flow criteria in the river system.
>> Happy to take it on notice. So intense. thing else can do you have the what days the triggers were met? >> Maybe on notice.
>> We have to take that on notice as well, Senator. But um we we I would say look, we've got in place arrangements with Snowy Hydro with New South Wales government round now around the operating arrangements for that. Um that there's there's active monitoring around the water flows at those various trigger points. Uh and then snow hydro will release water when those triggers are met.
>> And why isn't this publicly available information so the community can see triggers water flows?
>> So Senator, I would say that the drought operating framework and the operating arrangements under that are published on our website.
>> As how often are they updated?
>> Well, that that's the framework and the operating arrangements that specify what the triggers are.
>> No, I understand that. Yeah, thank you. That's but the actual releases um why why aren't you why isn't there a way to actually have visibility over triggers met releases happen?
>> I think that's a matter Senator for Snowy Hydra who who actually makes the
>> Okay. Um and so for the 15 um megs and then the five megs per day for on notice how many days is that water that the commonwealth has compensated snowy hydro for or is that water from the tube?
>> Uh so we do have an arrangement in place with snowy hydro to um to compensate them for that water that will be calculated towards the end of the the financial year and then my colleague Dr. banks uh puts in place some arrangements to protect that water.
>> Yeah. So, Senator, look, we've we've made available um up to 10 gig lers of water uh to uh which is um basically to where we're wearing the losses associated with the releases. And for us, the losses are ultimately the environmental outcome, you know, part of the environmental outcomes that we're trying to seek. So as part of this trial, we've been able to um make water available which has enabled the um the releases to happen without having any uh third party impacts.
>> Given you said 10 gigs, is it a concern that we've only seen releases of 15 megaliters given the the state of the river? >> Well, it's pretty dire when I talked to um sort of river ecologists and others.
>> Yeah. Well, I think Senator that goes to the sort of drought framework and the triggers there that dictate the sort of flow uh flows
>> and absolutely and senator in the drought operating framework we we do outline what those triggers are which relates to tantangra dam mid gang and lobs hole and they specify certain volumes that are of water that is to be maintained through the river system at those trigger points when certain conditions are met and so the allowance that Dr. bank talks about is that to uh that we expect obviously there will be multiple releases of water as that depending on the conditions in the river
>> and it's the first time we've been able to um as part of these arrangements um have water common water um used in in that system because we don't hold entitlements in that area.
>> Sure. Okay. on on the 30th of Jan January the New South Wales water minister Minister Rose Jackson said I think she said 14 gig liters will be released um Dr. banks. You've said 10. I'm just wondering whether
>> so the 14 gig liters relates to the total amount over that year um in terms of the contingency reserve.
>> Okay. And then I've made an amount of water available subject to the triggers being met um to u meet any of the losses associated with um uh with the flows um
that what the $30 million contingency from the federal government is for?
>> So the $30 million, Senator, is $10 million a year um to Snowy Hydro to uh basically reimburse them for the opportunity cost of reduced generation from the water they would otherwise hold in their system for power generation.
>> How is that different to Dr. Banks's water? He's saying he's going to wear the losses.
>> I I think probably the best way I could describe it is we're funding Snar Hydro to release that water from Tantangra Dam which they could otherwise use to generate electricity but that water needs to be protected downstream so that the environmental outcomes are achieved
>> and part of that is losses which is what um the Commonwealth water is contributing to.
>> Okay.
>> Which is only I think you know a fair like at this sort of rate is a fairly small amount of uh you know relatively small amount.
Um, Minister, do you think that this sort of data, this information, um, you know, flows, triggers met, releases should be publicly available data in 2026?
>> Well, I think I heard the officials say that at least some of that data is publicly available.
>> No, they said the framework, the agreement is publicly available, >> but as to the the flows and releases, that's I've got a
>> I think I'd need to take it on notice as to what Snowy Hydra published around the water releases, I don't have that in front of me. I'm sorry.
>> I'll take it off with them as well.
>> And I would just point out Senator Snowy
Hydro is on our agenda for later this evening.
>> Yeah. Thank you.
>> Look, I I would want to take some advice on that. There may well be good reasons to not publish that data. I just don't know. So, I I can't really give you an
>> Senator Pocock, um just touching base about whether we can move on. Um obviously I'm not
>> um Yeah. Okay. I'll I'll chuck these in as quanss. Apologies to officials at the
>> No, no. Um, very grateful, Senator PCO. Thank you very much. Um, on that note, we are moving off outcome four. Um, and we will move now to outcome three. Um, I now call officers from the department in relation to outcome three, advancing Australia's environmental, scientific, strategic and economic interests. In the end, we're going to push on to just um
worth clarifying your plans around the dinner break for officials.
>> Yes. So as as matters currently stand um we are going to extend until um 7:20 to permit the what I understand is the one round of questioning for outcome three and then we will conclude at that point um outcome three and move on to the new elements of the department after dinner. >> No problem. So um thank you minister. Uh the advance Australia's environmental, scientific, strategic and economic interest in the Antarctic region by protecting researching and administering in the region including through international engagement. And then outcome 3.1 contribute to Australia's national Antarctic interest through science, environmental management and international engagement, including delivering Australia scientific research and operations in Antarctica and the Southern Ocean. Welcome officials and I hand the call to Senator Wish Wilson.
>> Thanks chair. Um, first question, uh, any updates on, uh, implementation and funding for a decade or plan? >> Thank you, Senator. Emma Campbell, um, head of the Australian Antarctic Division. Um, as you know, we've been working for a long time on the divisional on the decal strategy and the implementation plan. Um, we have had some progress on funding. You would have seen in the Mayifo government provided 28 million which included money for for ASUS um for additional shipping days on
>> Sorry, I don't don't have long miss. I don't mean to cut you off but I want to know about the deco plan like a 10-year.
>> Yeah, I might pass to Professor Abrams >> thank you. Um Professor Narly Abram, chief scientist. Uh yes so we are making good progress on developing the implementation plan for the decal science strategy uh that's involving uh consulting with the science community. So so far I've held um two community workshops focusing on different priorities of the decor strategy. I have a third one in March um that's waiting on some of the the key scientists who are currently in Antarctica to come back. Um but we are making some good progress on that. um of course helped by the Mayifo announcements which have given us certainty particularly around the additional at sea days for noina. So we already have a number of programs that are delivering on the decal strategy as as we develop that implementation plan including millionaire ice core um we've had the the campaigns to herd and herd island and McDonald Islands. >> Okay. So, but in terms of the the so my understanding from the inquiry we >> That's correct. So we we have the the overall strategy and now we're developing um the activities that we'll be um delivering to um deliver on those outcomes. this was actually partly in relation to
$5 million over two years. They used to get $6.7 million peranom which was a cut from what they used to previously get. They'd seen it as a short-term kind of band-aid fix. Welcome nevertheless. Um, is it is it is it fair to say that there won't be any long-term funding for ACUS without a decodal plan or even even with funding. So what what what what what what do we say to Tasmanians that are at ACUS that have got $5 million for two years they're going to have to find money from somewhere or let people go to we will we say to them when the decodal plans and implementation plan funding's been finalized you'll have certainty or will there be something else >> the The answer is yes in terms of discussions with Syra because it's part of part of our key science relationship not just in inside uh SAR but across uh inside the AAD but also across broader marine areas in terms of marine protected areas um and and with respect to parks Australia as well. So the answer is yes in terms of making sure that we keep the dialogue open with with SR around their priorities moving forward. >> But they've consulted with you about >> Yeah. but also our priorities situation. >> So it's where we work in partnership and because we are a key partner of
and there was a lot of concern about um
the Antarctic. No one was completely sure and still probably aren't sure. Um what kind of impacts are there concerns at the AAD uh around um I suppose the US government in in particular around their national snow and ice data center and satellite observation feed being cut off in October this year.
>> The the short answer is yes. Um we're
>> Yeah. So um there there are a number of nations that contribute to the information that we have um for Antarctica. And so uh the international community is certainly working to look at what the prospects are for where our data comes from, what are the next missions that would be delivering um that. So that's an international um conversation. Um in terms specifically for CI starter um I believe that uh the the um cuts in the US have affected the amount of processing or the different um products that are delivered but the the baseline scientific data is still
>> Okay. So anyway look once again she's got me under the pump here. Um I'll put some
the our engagement in the Antarctic you know our role. So I think that's probably a question best answered to DEFAT but they are certainly aware of the um changing geopolitical landscape and we talk to them regularly about >> I believe I [clears throat] talked about it at the last committee. We're looking at supplementary shipping to support um some of our infrastructure work at And so that work is underway. We're hoping to have a uh vessel for next season to support that work which will um stop Noina being diverted to that
shipping to support infrastructure and then the additional days for Noina on science so we can use Noina for more
I'm sorry but of as we've said earlier today all budget matters we don't discuss here they'll be discussed >> without asking the quantum are you able to say whether at least that is in planning. I I'm not in a position to talk about, you know, what we may or may not be seeking or doing via the budget, but certainly I can say that the department is keeping me informed of their work around the decad plan and and as that as that thinking evolves, that will obviously, you know, inform decisions that we make.
was very quick. >> No, thank you, Senator Wish Wilson. Your brevity is very much appreciated. Um, thank you to the witnesses from the Australian Antarctic Association. Uh, and thank you, Minister. I understand we'll have a new minister when we've commence outcome one after the dinner break. Given that we have pushed long, we will extend um or we'll extend the dinner break um by 5 minutes and we'll go to 810. We will resume um programming on outcome number one. Thank you all.