Senate Environment and Communications Legislation Committee, , 33:54 to 45:04
Officials list the Pacific world leaders who attended the event and discuss delegation travel arrangements, including economy class travel for staff.
Topics: Diplomatic events, Pacific relations, COP31
Speakers: David Higgins, Hon Sarah Henderson, Dean Smith, Hon Murray Watt, Varun Ghosh, Mr Mike Kaiser, Mr. David Higgins, Ms Kushla Munro
>> Let's let's come back to corporate matters in the department. I think we've strayed away from that a little bit. do
it. Yeah, you just uh staying with the matter of accommodation expenses, am I right to assume that as part of the reconciliation or a quiddle process, you would have um kept a measurement or a record of the utilization of rooms that were booked or surrendered during the process of confirming delegate accommodation and arrangements?
That's right, Senator. Although that was done in conjunction with the hotels themselves, obviously who who managed the the rooms. So, we had arrangements in place with the with each of the the hotels. Um, and they uh the hotels then worked to allocate those those rooms to to delegates and we were obviously in contact with the with the hotels. The reconciliation process obviously requires us to engage with the with the the hotels and in some instances with delegations.
>> So, am I right to assume that there was 100% utilization of all of the rooms across all of those venues?
>> That that I don't know, Senator. I would have to have to check for you. Um I I would uh I would be surprised if it was 100%, but um but let me let me check for you.
>> They were half utilized.
>> Oh, I I I wouldn't speculate, Senator. I I don't know. I think that the vast majority of of rooms were utilized, but I couldn't give you a a percentage.
>> What I can tell you, Senator Smith, is that when APE was hosted in 2007 under Prime Minister Howard, uh 6,000 delegates and 1500 journalists were forecast to attend. When the event was held, the final number was well short with only 4,000 delegates and less than 1,000 journalists showing up. uh the coalition were forced to release more than 2,000 luxury hotel rooms in central
back to the market. >> How many world leaders? >> You've got a you've got a comprehensive set of notes there. M Senator Senator Waters >> I'm sure I'm sure many world leaders I'm sure that the G >> How many world leaders? >> I'm sure that the How many world leaders can I finish? How many world leaders?
>> Senators come to order please. It is it does Senator Henderson, please don't talk over the top of me when I've called order. I have started today with the hope that we would conduct this in a way that was civil and we would engage in the question answer. It is civil and
good humor. It is civil and good humor.
>> Senator Smith, I agree. I sorry. Well, before everyone jumps in, >> it is civil, Senator Smith. I'm not saying you are being univil, but both you and the minister are talking over the top of each other's comp relatively constantly.
>> Did you hear what each other said? and
and I I appreciate the strength of your relationship, but I also have, in my experience, come to see this committee very quickly accelerate from what is a civil, but nevertheless slightly fractious exchange into something that is less than civil. So, I'm simply trying to keep that in order. And when I do so, um, I would appreciate everyone in the room just coming to order so I can do that. I'm not suggesting otherwise.
>> Civil, good humored, and goodnatured. Uh, Mr. Higgins, on notice, if you could uh provide us some information around the utilization of rooms across those uh venues, that would be much appreciated. Thank you.
>> And we could compare that to the 2,000 luxury hotel rooms in central Sydney released back to the market.
>> Looking forward to the list of world leaders.
>> Well, must have been quite a few of them that didn't show up. If 2,000 luxury hotel rooms were released back to the market,
>> uh world leaders, the number of world leaders,
>> I think world leaders probably stay in luxury hotel rooms. it was probably within the 2,000
>> or perhaps they economized with their delegations.
>> Well, I'm glad you mentioned economizing because I'm glad you mentioned economizing because with this event, ministers and advisers and all departmental officials traveled economy fairs to Fiji. Uh, and only where strictly necessary for security and operational purposes did ministers, officials, and advisers stay on site at the main venue. A vast majority of staff around 75 stayed offsite in more modest accommodations saving up to $166 per room per night.
>> I'd hardly regard that as a virtue. That's my expectation. >> That's my expectation.
>> I'm just I'm making the point. Sure. Your expectation was fulfilled.
>> So the government has met my expectation. If it was any different, I wouldn't regard that as a virtue. What? That's my expectation.
>> Well, I'm glad that we met your expectation. >> Y on this point on this point. the point being made that efforts were made to economize
>> civil and good naturatured. Yes. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Hickens. Yeah.
>> Um can I just pick up on um on the world leaders which did attend uh the pre-OP. Minister Bowen said on the 5th of October 2026, this is the first preop where we've invited world leaders. Uh the government kept that invite list secret. Can we please understand how many world leaders were invited and how many attended and who were they?
>> Thank you, Senator. I can give you a list of um those who attended um the the Tuvalu uh visit and participated in the leaders plenary that was held in Fiji. Um I I can't give you a list of those who was who were invited. that was a a matter for um the prime minister's office and it was managed by PMC and and DEFAT. So I'd have to refer you to to
>> Well, Mr. Higgins, firstly, could you just set up which world leaders attended uh the Touvalu and Fiji components, please?
So um uh Prime Minister Alani uh Prime Minister uh Fleti of Tuvalu um the prime minister of Fiji, the prime minister of Cook Islands, the president of Timor Le uh the president of Palao, the prime minister of Papu Nug Guina, the president of Maitius, the president of New Calonia, the prime minister of Newway, the prime minister of the Solomon Islands, the prime minister of Tonga, the prime minister of Vanuatu and the president of Naru. Um there were other um senior representatives in attendance. Um the Asian Development Bank was represented by
>> So just can I just stay on world leaders? Were there any So there's no non-Pacific world leaders.
>> Well, we think Pacific leaders matter to Senator Henderson.
>> Yeah. So do I. Minister, please don't reflect on me. I'm asking Mr. Higgins. There were no non-Pacific world leaders. That's correct, isn't it?
>> Mauritius and Tim Oste
>> not part of the Pacific, Senator Henderson.
>> Well, part of the broader region. Uh, and
>> I think you'll find Maitius is in quite
a different region. >> Sorry, Minister, if I could just if you could not interrupt me, Mr. Higgins, you say that the invitation list was managed by PMNC. Do you have does the department have a copy of that list? Are you aware of who was invited?
No. Uh, Senator, I I don't have
>> So, so there was no there's no document held by the department in relation to world leaders who were invited.
>> Um, there there may be I'm not aware of of a document that sets out who was invited.
>> I Mr. Kaiser, could I ask you if you're aware of any document in the department? >> Would I be able to ask you to hunt that down and bring that back if that does >> uh I would be surprised given you're running the show that your department doesn't know who is invited.
>> Well, it's it's a significant international event. So, it's not surprising that prime minister and cabinet and DEFAT would have some involvement particularly in the broader aspects of you know the foreign affairs implications and security implications of the of the event.
>> Who is
>> but we can check Senator.
>> Who issued the invitations?
were issued by the the prime ministers of Australia, Fiji and Tuvalu. Um and just to be ve very clear, DQ was not involved in the delivery of the Tuvalu event. Um and and we were not involved in the um the framing of the of the preop leaders um uh plenary either. It it was we worked obviously in partnership with with DEFAT and PMC to ensure that that the space worked um because it was we were using the same plenary all but um it it was not our
>> Um Mr. Higgins
>> I just need to share the call in a
minute. >> Oh sure I'll just finish this. Um thank you. >> Of the world leaders who attended uh how many attended the Touvalu component and how many attended the Fiji component?
all of the all of the ones that I I listed >> I I'm pretty sure attended Tuvalu and then they all participated in the in the precop uh plenary leaders plenary as
>> Uh can I just ask whether the president of the United States the vice president the US secretary of state uh or the US secretary of energy were invited?
>> I'm not a I'm not aware senator. So, so
>> M. Monroe, do you are you aware of that?
>> Deputy Secretary again uh these really are um questions for the foreign affairs and prime minister's department.
>> But I'm asking about whether you are aware whether anyone in the
>> I'm not aware.
>> Mr. Kaiser, do you know whether I mean it's a pretty they're pretty significant figures on the world stage. Would you not be aware if they were invited? I
think that's precisely why prime minister in cabinet was involved in you wouldn't expect a department to a line agency like ours to be issuing invitations to work.
>> No, no, but I'm asking about your awareness.
>> I'm not aware, Senator, but we can check whether there are documents in the department.
>> If you could please. >> Uh was the United States ambassador to Fiji um Marie Damour invited?
Um I I don't believe ambassadors were invited to to any element of the preop program. Some of them may have been involved in supporting the their um their delegations, but but I don't believe um any were were there um unless perhaps some um delegations chose to to to ask for their incountry representatives to to support.
>> I'll come back to you in a moment.
>> I've only got about two more questions on this and then I'll finish. Oh, I just
and then I'll come back. Thank you. Um, Senator Brown, uh,
>> excuse me, >> I'm Apologies, Senator. Could I just correct my my evidence? I've just become aware that the president of Naru did not travel to Tuvalu, but participated in the in the pre-OP leaders plenary in Fiji with apologies.