Senate Environment and Communications Legislation Committee, , 2:02:10 to 2:13:07
Senators question the Minister's response to controversial ABC broadcasts, focusing on editorial independence versus statutory obligations for accuracy and impartiality regarding the Gina Rinehart segment.
Topics: Integrity, Public service staffing
Speakers: Senator The Hon Sarah Henderson, Senator Nita Green, Senator Dean Smith, Mr Sam Grunhard, Mr Jim Betts, Mr Andrew Howell, Senator Varun Ghosh, Speaker 14
Can I turn to the issue of the ABC and the race around the world program concerning Mrs. Gina Reinhardt?
Just a quick change of personnel.
Yeah, thanks very much, Ms. Mackay. Don't go too far though, will you? Betts, are you aware or so to the Minister whether Minister Wells raised any concerns with the ABC about this program?
The answer to that is no, I'm not aware. Obviously, the ABC's editorial independence is something which is enshrined in statute. But the team may have more insight into that.
And the Minister condemned the comments publicly. I think on the 6th of August.
She didn't do so initially, so she did eventually make some.
No, no, sorry. No, she did condemn the comments.
No, not not initially when the public when the f when the controversy first broke.
Well, when she was asked about it, she condemned the comments, making her personal views known. And also making the point that the Ombudsman would be looking at this. And it would be necessary for the ABC to issue a policy and an apology. If they if the Ombudsman found that like the Minister's views, it was unacceptable.
And did the Minister make any representations to the ABC as far as you're aware, Minister?
The ABC is independent. They have a you know uh an independent um charter, which means that we have to be very um uh cautious, I think, of uh minister being seen to direct the ABC in any way, shape or form. Um of course um uh there are there is scrutiny in place, as there should be of the decisions of ABC, including appearing at estimates today. Um of course through the Ombudsman and that process um uh was played out and the minister publicly condemned those comments?
I mean I've raised continuing concerns that when the ABC has breached its statutory obligations, the Minister has remained silent. So there is a statutory obligation in section eight of the ABC Act to disseminate information accurately and impartially. Sure.
Well, before you get ahead of yourself to the previous answer that you gave me, that the previous answer is a very good question.
Please don't interrupt. Please allow me to finish my question.
Senator Henderson, please don't talk over the top of me when I start talking as well too. My job is to chair this and try to ensure that decorum and civility maintain is maintained in this room. So it doesn't work well when two people talk at once. Let's take it in turns. Uh we'll go to uh Minister, if you have something very briefly to finish, and then Senator Henderson, I'm coming back to you.
So that you can follow on with your questions. Um I believe that the Minister did raise this with the ABC, and I can take on notice the details of that representation.
Uh so sorry, she so I I just make the point that I was in the middle of my previous question and you interrupted me. What I'm saying is that the Minister has systemically declined to say anything. She continues to cite editorial independence. When there's a statutory obligation on the ABC to disseminate news and information impartially and accurately. And when there are very, very serious transgressions, the Minister has on very few occasions said anything. Uh has the Minister raised concerns about the Marmwood Fazal scandal.
With the ABC.
That's right.
Well, just to go back because I don't want your The characterisation that you have given is not true, and I don't agree with that characterization in regards to the previous matter. Um the Minister did raise with the ABC that all proper processes should be followed and her views about the previous matter that you raised were publicly expressed. Um ABC does have editorial independence, and that does need to be respected. Um I can take on notice whether there was any particular representation about that other matter or any other matter that you choose to raise in this forum. Uh of course the ABC the ABC is appearing today and they they could answer those questions.
We are interested here in what the Minister chose to do or did not choose to do in regards to what was a very very serious very very serious matter. Goes to issues around sexual violence, goes to issue around gender portrayal. How did the Minister convey the fact that she was that she found the ABC's broadcast with the reference to Mrs. Reinhardt? How did she convey to the ABC that she found it unacceptable?
Two answers to your question, Senator, and thank you. Um first of all, the Minister made her views publicly known at a press conference on the 6th of August. Um she also raised it with the ABC and I said that to Senator Henderson, and I've taken the details of that representation on notice for you.
But if you knew that she had raised it with the ABC, you must know in what form she raised it. A telephone conversation.
Senator Vine, a written Senator a written form. Senator, I've taken the question on notice for you so they can get you those details.
Mr. Birts, are you aware of the Department being involved in supporting the Minister in making her views known to the ABC?
I'll defer to my colleagues.
Senator Sam Grunhard, First Assistant Secretary, Consumer Safeclose Media and Connectivity Division. Senator, I'm not aware other than the public statement that the Minister has referred to. I'm not aware of us having otherwise assisted the Minister on this matter.
Is it other officials? That's your understanding as well.
James San Cray's assistant secretary broadcasting and media reform. No, nothing further to add. Uh not aware of any such.
So you did not assist with the drafting of a letter that the Minister may or may not have chosen to send to the ABC? Provided no advice to the Minister's office in regards to the matter of editorial independence, what the scope, what the full scope of her authority?
Senator, we might just check that there's a possibility, of course, on a matter like this, we may have received a media query, for example, and we may have therefore provided a response to the Minister's Office to advise on how to respond to that media query. I don't know that to be the case, but but we'll just check that for you on notice.
Are there corporate affairs members of the department's corporate affairs communications team in the order? Audience at the moment? No, or in the back room.
They've left because we're no longer in call.
Not able to confirm, Senator, but we'll certainly check it for you on notice.
So the issue that I'm raising is that the Minister dragged her feet for at least a week. She said nothing about this when this occurred. She did not raise any concerns for at least a week. And she also said things like the ABC has a board, they have a chair, they have a process where they where these things reach public eye. And I appreciate the fact that they have now referred it to the Ombudsman for that to play out. So this was hardly a strong statement made as soon as this occurred. Because it was a disgusting and appalling thing that was broadcast on the ABC. And what are the ramifications for it? The M the Ombudsman, apart from the apology by the managing director, the Ombudsman has apparently found there to be no breach of editorial standards, which I find completely unbelievable. So you know that's probably one of the very few times, Minister, that Minister Wells has raised concerns about when the ABC crosses the line in a very serious way, as it is also done in the Mahmud Fazal matter. And you know, this is the public broadcaster. It receives almost 1.3 billion dollars of taxpayers' funding every year. Australians expect it to operate it at its very very best. It's got accountability to the Parliament and the Australian people and to the Minister. Betts, are you aware of or do you did you hold do you hold any other correspondence in relation to concerns raised with the ABC? In your department?
So you're describing the operation of the statutory framework for the governance of the ABC as defined by the Parliament. And a matter has been referred to the Ombudsman. You don't like the conclusion that's been reached, but that's the process which has been followed.
That's not my question. No, I'm just saying that I I disagreed with the findings of the Ombudsman.
Which you're entitled to.
Yeah, which I'm entitled to do. I found it astonishing that there was no breach of editorial standards. That's not a matter to. So you asked, do I hold any correspondence in relation to the Are you aware or do you hold any correspondence or could you take it on notice from the Department or from the Minister? Any other matters that have been raised of concern with the ABC?
About anything.
Yeah, about any any thing at all. That's right.
Okay, we'll take that on notice.
Okay, sure. Thanks, Chair. That's fine. Senator Payman.