Senate Environment and Communications Legislation Committee, , 1:51:01 to 1:58:03
The committee examines the proposed Digital Duty of Care bill, specifically the removal of prescriptive online safety codes and the eSafety Commissioner's role in developing new regulatory guidance.
Topics: Online safety, Child safety, Law reform
Speakers: Senator The Hon Sarah Henderson, Senator Varun Ghosh, Ms Sarah Vandenbroek, Unknown Speaker, Senator Nita Green
And so we'd be appreciated the relevant officials. I've raised a number of very serious concerns about the proposed bill and the draft bill, the exposure draft. But I'm wanting to ask about whether, and I have had a departmental briefing, so I'm aware of some of these concerns. But I want to go to the heart of why the legislated codes and standards are going to be removed from the bill after 12 months. They set out very prescriptive obligations, including obligations on digital platforms to detect, prevent and remove unlawful material, such as child sexual abuse material, terrorism material, extreme violence material, very very detailed and prescriptive obligations, along with a whole range of other prescriptive obligations concerning age-restricted material. What concerns has the E Safety Commissioner raised in relation to that decision? And why have these codes after 12 months been removed? With no with no guarantees that anything which obligates the platforms and other relevant online services will be required to take that proactive, those proactive measures to stop this material being online in the first place.
That I think does go to the substance of the content of the bill which is before a committee. But that really goes to the core of the policy rationale and the operation of the bill itself. So questions about the meaning, purpose, intent, or effect of a bill or a provision that's subject to a separate Senate inquiry should be pursued through that inquiring process rather than through the estimates hearing.
Well, Chair, I I'm asking these questions because we've seen in the past where despite Senate inquiries undertaking its their work in relation to bills, bills have also been fast-tracked through the Parliament before I refer specifically to the environmental laws before the committee even reports.
So, well, sorry, hold on, before let me respond to two aspects of that. First, it doesn't bring it within that relevance concern at the moment. But the second point is on this occasion I think it was your motion in the Senate that set the timetable of this.
You voted against it.
No, well, we may have may have to be able to do that. But I guess my point is that that that's not that not quite an opposite point in that respect. So I I would just say we're not going to go to the substance of the bill today for the reasons that I've outlined and on the basis of the advice that I've received.
Can I ask whether the Safety Commissioner expressed concern about the removal of the codes and standards in the bill after 12 months?
We had a number of conversations with the Safety Commissioner and with her team. We held lengthy workshops on a number of occasions about the bill. We have worked through a lot of different aspects of the bill. We've talked about the codes and standards, and my understanding is that the Commissioner is comfortable with what we've landed on.
But there is no equivalent provisions in the bill. So those codes and standards have been removed, and I'm asking about and look clearly I've had briefings with both the department and the e-safety commissioner. So I've had some discussions about the concerns in relation to the removal of the codes and standards. Now those briefings occurred before the release of the bill. I was expecting that they would be reinstated. They've only been reinstated for 12 months as a transition measure. So there's nothing that goes to the substantive issues in that are detailed in the codes and standards. Now I appreciate we won't get stuck in the weeds in relation to the provisions of the bill. But can you just detail the concerns the safety commissioner raised in this respect to the department?
As I said, we had a number of conversations with the safety commissioner. We have agreed that the bill does capture what the codes and standards capture in principle. The detail isn't there. The detail will be in the regulatory guidance that will be issued by the Commissioner. And that will make it available to everybody who needs to comply, and it will make it more flexible and responsive to changes in technology and to emerging harms.
So where to could you just point me to where in the bill, the regulatory. Oh no, I'm responsible.
Alright, we've got two people raising it. Look, I think that's a good question.
Sorry, can I chair? After two words.
Well, everyone needs to just come to order for the case.
You're essentially ignoring the advanced.
Can I just please be allowed to ask my question before you rule on it?
Well, hold on, but the predecessor question was getting very close to that. What I will say is, as I said before, if it goes to what's in or not in the bill and the policy rationales or related matters that go to that substance, then it isn't within scope if it goes to administration spending of money, operations of the department, i.e. when briefings were held, but it can't go to why something was in or out of the bill with the nature and the substance of it. So I I'm listening very carefully to your question.
Vandenbroek, there's nothing in the bill that requires the e-safety commissioner to make regulatory guidelines to replace the online codes and standards. So I go back to my question. And I also ask for any advice or briefs or correspondence of the e-Safety Commissioner provided the department in relation to the removal of the codes and standards. Did you receive advice from the Safety Commissioner in writing in relation to this matter?
I would need to check that. We had, as I said, a lot of meetings with the Commissioner and with her team. We talked through a lot of things in detail. We made a lot of notes that we then considered. I don't remember specifically whether the Commissioner wrote to us about the codes and standards.