Senate Environment and Communications Legislation Committee, , 9:39:40 to 9:45:23
Officials clarify the location of eSafety researchers and discuss the definition of 'accredited researchers' mentioned in ministerial speeches regarding upcoming online safety legislation.
Topics: Online safety, Public service staffing
Speakers: Speaker 31, Ms Julie Inman Grant, Senator Nita Green, Speaker 42, Ms Heidi Snell, Senator Varun Ghosh
So Senator Whitten.
Minister Wells at the National Press Club on the 15th of October 26th stated. Um I quote the reason that it's in this bill is because the e-safety and accredited researchers currently basing themselves outside of Australia because. Because they experience no legal protection in Australia. Want us to put this in to allow them to do this important work here and for the evidence that they gather to be able to be used in compliance and enforcement. However, this term is not defined under any current legislation. Who are those accredited researchers and who's accrediting them?
I think that is a question for for government. So that there will obviously have to be an accreditation program, and I'm I'm not clear on who would provide that accreditation. Really freedom of expression protections for researchers doing important work, testing the claims of how uh companies uh platforms um are operating and whether their safety functions and features work as they uh as they're meant to be.
No, no, it's not not about the bill.
Yes, it is.
No, no, the the minister said currently basing themselves outside of Australia.
So that's what is that she's referring she's referring to um Australian researchers, for instance who um can't do the test accounts here because there aren't protections, but there are in Europe because of the DSA.
So that's not the bill is a separate thing. I'm talking about currently. Because e-safety and accredited researchers currently base themselves. So forget the legislation, I'm not talking about that. It hasn't happened yet. I'm talking about what's happening right now.
We base ourselves here. We don't have uh any personnel based overseas. Um, what we do with testing accounts is we um we've sent letters to all of the major platforms to request access. And in most cases, uh, they have said no unless we use avowed accounts. So in some cases we've used about accounts.
So all your researchers are based in Australia at the moment.
Yes.
And they so are they accredited by e-safety?
Or no Catherine King General Manager. I don't mean to speak on behalf of the minister, but what she would be referring to there is wide commentary about researchers, not e-safety researchers. So that is a bit of a syntax in that sentence. She would be referring to researchers who have commented on the need to do that. So that sits outside of e-safety.
Okay, because I'm quoting uh um because e-safety and accredited researchers currently basing themselves outside of Australia. Sorry?
So it's e-safety.
And then researchers outside of Australia. And the researchers don't act for e-safety to the extent that we have any regard to research that's done offshore, that's in published um documents that they produce. Um any work to be done offshore.
Okay. You can see the link but with the upcoming legislation where it talks about accredited researchers.
And that's a matter for the substance.
And I know that's coming, but that's she's referencing it in a speech. Accredited researchers.
If you're asking me I'm representing the minister, if you're asking me what the reference in the speech was, um, and then that's the the plain language of those words. If we want to get into what the words might mean in a legislative sense, um, we can answer those questions for you in more detail during the Senate inquiry. Um, because I don't have the bill in front of me. I'm not sure whether it there's a particular legislative definition of that.
So for clarity, e-safety do not currently have any researchers or personnel operating uh overseas.
We do not, they're all located in either Canberra, Sydney, or Melbourne.
Okay, and there's no nothing going forward that might require them operating overseas?
Thanks.
Thank you very much. Well, that's an appropriate time to take our dinner break. We will uh return at seven thirty PM with uh the Office of the E Safety Commissioner. Thank you very much.