Senate Environment and Communications Legislation Committee, , 8:00:54 to 8:09:23
A heated exchange occurs as SBS refuses to disclose the costs of its annual upfronts showcase, citing commercial-in-confidence despite its status as a public broadcaster.
Topics: Government spending, Integrity
Speakers: Ms Jane Palfreyman, Senator The Hon Sarah Henderson, Senator Varun Ghosh, Unknown Speaker
Okay. What about have you had your upfront your showcase for next year?
Yes, Senator. We uh hosted our upfronts uh in September of this year. Um we had um we shared our 2027 content slate with our client partners and our agency partners uh in Sydney and in the other markets and shared with them our plans, uh content uh and plans um for for 2027. Uh the purpose of those fronts is obviously to kick off the commercial negotiations for revenue in 2027 for advertising revenue.
And what was the cost of that event? What date was that event and where was it held? Because I've previously raised concern about the significant. Sorry, just that I just the context is I've privacy raised concern about the significant cost of this event in previous years. I think the previous year was uh quite substantial, well over a million dollars from my recollection.
No, Senator. Uh I believe it was about half of that number in previous years. The event yes, it wasn't over a million dollars, no.
Okay, I'll stand corrected on that. I I'll I'll double check that. Uh, if you've got those costs, but what was the cost of of the showcase or the upfronts for this year?
So, Senator, you asked about the dates. Um the Sydney event was held on the 1st of September with the other events uh held shortly thereafter. Um the obviously um, as I mentioned before, uh our revenue generating activities are commercial in confidence. We endeavour to be as efficient as we can, and and I can assure you we are thoughtful in how we deploy our resources. It's a critical event on the calendar to kick off the commercial negotiations for 2027. Yep. You'll see in the annual report that we've tabled today, we uh drive significant uh commercial revenue. That revenue affords us the opportunity to not only um uh cover the commercial activities but invest in more Australian content uh and we're thoughtful in how we how we do it.
That's terrific, Ms. Polfriman, but I was asking for the cost of that event.
I appreciate that, Senator, and as I've said that cost us commercial inconfidence. The climate has never been more competitive. Um sharing that cost with you is akin to emailing the CEOs of our competitors uh what we do and how we do it, uh and would put us at a disadvantage in being able to deliver that efficiently.
Ms. Paulfriend, this is not a broadcasting deal. This is not a sponsorship deal. This is SBS's event costs for your upfront event. And which you previously disclosed, there is absolutely no basis, like your own travel costs, and like the travel costs of those that you took to America. There is no basis for you to decline to answer this question.
Senator, it's a commercial event. It's called our commercial strategy. It generates the case.
You're a public broadcast, you're a public broadcaster, Ms. Paulman.
I'm aware of that, Senator. It allows us to generate some 150 million dollars as per our last annual report. Sharing uh this information um puts us in a situation where it's it's it's uh it puts us at a commercial disadvantage. It's sharing with our competitors our activity, what we do and how we do it. Um as ever we focus on efficiency, my team estimates we spend a quarter of what the our competitors do. We are hybrid funded organization and and need to be able to compete and put our best foot forward uh as we launch our commercial strategy and market.
Ms. Porfiman, can I suggest that if you are not willing to comply with the rules of the Senate and your responsibilities as the managing director of SBS, a publicly funded broadcaster, then that is a serious issue. I will read from the rules of the of estimates. The Senate has resolved that there are no areas in connection with the expenditure of public funds where any person has a discretion to withhold details or explanations unless expressly provided otherwise. And the only basis on which you can withhold this information is to take a public interest immunity claim. It is open to you to take that on notice for the purposes of a PII claim. Otherwise, you are required to answer these questions. You don't have this discretion, Ms. Paulman.
Senator, we're a hybrid funded organization. Um government appropriation assumes our ability to earn commercial revenue. We need to compete with the landscape.
But you are running SBS, I'm aware of it. And you are you you are subject to the rules of the Senate and the Parliament. Senator That doesn't that doesn't get you doesn't give you a get out of jail card.
Oh, so hold on, can I just intervene now? They've just gone back and forth a few times. Um I I I don't understand, though Ms. Paulman can speak for herself that she uh that she has given evidence that she's not going to abide by the rules of the parliament. Because I understand these questions have been taken on notice and then will be considered for the purposes of the basis on which information can be provided. And then um if there's a need to make a claim or provide information, then it will be will be done so and then we can um evaluate either the claim or the information that's been provided on that occasion. Uh so I I think we are clear that there is a requirement to answer questions and estimates, um, but that's as I understand the position uh that's been expressed by Ms. Paul from I wrong.
You're right, Chair, and I'm happy to take that on notice and see what information we can provide about.
So Chair, you've just prompted Ms. Pofferman to take that on notice. I did raise that this was open to you, but up until that point you indicated that you were declining to answer the question. So if you are if you could take that on notice and take some advice, including whether you wish to make a public interest immunity claim. Um but I am concerned, and I don't think I think you're on very thin ice, Ms. Paul Friman, because you have previously provided us with the costs of this very event in previous years. So what has changed?
Senator, I'm aware of that disclosure. It was about this time last year, I think. Um the landscape is more competitive than we've ever had to deal with.
The pressure of the rules of the Senate haven't changed.
I'm not suggesting they haven't. I'm suggesting that providing that information shares sensitive commercial information with our competitors. My role is to ensure we can continue to be efficient. However, I'm happy to take it on notice and see what information we can provide to you.
Where did you hold this event?
Uh it was held at a an event uh it was held in town hall in Sydney, the Sydney event, is that what you're referring to?
I don't know how many events there were.
Um, and as we're a national broadcaster, uh there were events in other locations, um other capital cities. So Melbourne, Brisbane, Perth and Adelaide.
And where were the events held in each of those cities?
Uh they were at um restaurants or small sort of function centres.
And did they involve the serving of food and alcohol?
It involves uh one-hour presentation over lunch. Um the presentation, including you know, our content slate for 2027 to help um explain what plans we had in store for engaging Australians and how clients could partner with us.
I mean I'm not taking issue with the events that you're running because that is an important part of the work that you need to do to attract revenue. I I totally understand that. I went to the ABC showcase last week. They don't have the same burden that SBS has in terms of attracting revenue, but what I'm concerned about is this change in the way you're operating and the lack of disclosure about those costs. You've taken it on notice. Uh so the Sydney event was at the Sydney Town Hall, is that right?
Uh that's right, Senator.
And where was the other where were the other events held?
Uh we can provide this information on notice that that's helpful. Uh uh restaurant in Melbourne called the Terrace, a place in Brisbane called the Warehouse, a place in Perth called Cleaver House, uh, and a place uh similar restaurant in Adelaide.