Senate Environment and Communications Legislation Committee [Part 2], , 39:32 to 48:31
Discussion shifts to battery product safety removals and potential national security implications related to consumer energy resources.
Topics: Energy storage, National security, Public safety
Speakers: Hon Sarah Henderson, Carl Binning, Hon Murray Watt, Tony Chappel, Mr. Tony Chappel
>> Okay. So can I just ask to round this off how many total complaints referrals and investigations are currently on the books. So disregarding yearbyear what's
the total number? Um well well you you disre you you you can't disregard the year. This is a scheme the small scale renewable energy scheme that has operated under both governments since about 2011. Um and for some context in the final year of the former government 21 to 22 um there were 11 investigations. That's obviously before the cheaper home batteries scheme.
>> No minister sorry I'm asking about the
cheaper home batteries. I understand but not cheap. >> Can I finish my question, my answer? The Can I finish please? >> the questions you are asking relate to the cheaper home batteries scheme which is a subset of a broader small scale renewable energy scheme which has been operating for 10 or 15 years under both governments and even before the cheaper home batteries scheme was created. uh there were investigations, convictions uh and referrals occurring under this scheme.
>> Yes, the minister, I'm I'm not disputing that. I'm just asking these questions.
>> I think it's important though people understand it's not a new thing that there have been investigations under this broader scheme that the cheaper home battery scheme is part of. So I'm
just trying to round off under the cheaper home battery scheme what what is the total number of referrals active investigations those who've been banned
>> as as the minister has noted we can't distinguish between small scale solar and batteries but there at the current time um there are six active investigations and 10 uh in resolution uh phase and I just note that we take all allegations very seriously. We thoroughly investigate.
>> Sorry, Mr. Bidding. That's just conflicted with the advice that we got earlier.
>> Uh yes, Senator. So, I'm happy to sort of correct the record. So, the the number that you were given earlier of 7 and 12. >> Mhm. >> Um uh related to both the combination of the smallcale renewable scheme and the Australian carbon credit unit. uh um scheme and so those that relate specifically to the smallcale renewable scheme right >> and the cheaper home batteries uh is six and 10 and I apologize for
>> six sorry six and 10 what do you mean
>> active investigations and 10 uh in resolution phase
>> and it might be important for the officials to clarify whether we're talking there about the cheaper home batteries scheme I'm about >> or the broader >> um uh small scale renewable but really can
>> no I understand that minister
>> I think it's important that that be clarified
>> can I just understand so do you have a breakdown
>> uh no we don't keep a a breakdown and that reason for that uh the broader
scheme not just cheaper home batteries
minister I'm trying to answer this ask these questions please
>> it's associated with the small scale renewable energy scheme so that is both household solar and household battery
>> all right I'm going to ask you to provide that to us on notice please because very happy to >> you must know uh the which scheme that they're operating.
>> Well, let's just let's take we're very happy to come back on notice.
>> Uh can I quickly I I quickly want to quickly turn to the battery products themselves. How many of the more than 500,000 installed batteries have been manufactured overseas?
>> So the simple answer to that question, Senator, is the vast majority.
How many batteries have been removed since the 1st of July 2025 from the approved batteries list?
>> Uh so I am uh aware of uh one um company Nevault uh that has had their listing uh removed. It's associated with a range uh of uh technical uh issues and I think and I'm happy to take on notice just to confirm that involved uh six different battery models by that one manufacturer.
>> Thank you. if you could provide further details on notice. Um, is the agency aware of any modern slavery concerns that have arisen in the supply chains implicated under the cheaper home batteries program?
>> Certainly not, but do my colleagues have I mean, we're happy to take that on notice as well for the agency as a whole. Senator,
>> uh, okay, so you're not aware of um Okay. You're not aware of any
>> Noations.
What about are you aware of any national security uh implications raised with respect to
>> Uh so we're not aware of any uh specific uh concerns. Cyber security associated with consumer energy resources is a matter sort of actively uh being considered um uh and primary responsibility in in together with our um national security agencies rests uh with the department senator. So we'll
>> Okay. I I mean look obviously if the vast majority of overseas batteries have have um are being used in the scheme have you identified any any countries where you've got particular concerns in terms of the origins of batteries?
>> Uh no uh senator so we would uh take advice as I've said from the department in relation to those issues.
minister do you have anything further?
The just the last piece of context on cheaper home batteries. The AC's latest inquiry into the National Electricity Market report combined with the clean energy regulators installation data from the same quarters shows that while home battery installations increased by 300% over the last year, the number of consumer complaints per 10,000 installations have halved over the same period. Now, our government, and I'm sure the regulator takes any allegation of improper conduct when it comes to installation of cheaper home batteries or broader solar programs very seriously, has taken action uh where needed. Um, but we need to keep in mind that the proportion of complaints and investigations is extremely low. I think the figure I was talking about was 0.002% 002% and that is reasonably similar to the proportion of investigations that we've seen under this program for 15 years.
>> Okay. Um Mr. Chappel, are you aware about um a donation by the Smart Energy Council to the Australian Labor Party?
>> Uh I'm not. I'm sorry.
>> Uh of um apparently [clears throat] over $100,000.
>> I'm sorry. I'm not familiar with
>> I mean the Smart Energy Council plays a role in regulating the scheme, doesn't
it? >> Uh no, the Clean Energy Council uh is the custodian of the uh accredited device register. Um but that's a different body
>> and so what so there's no connection at all but with with the agency and
>> so they're obviously a representative
group. So Senator um uh we we are aware of the media reports. Um a matter relating to uh donations is not something that sits within our regulatory remitt. There is a very long uh standing uh arrangement in place where uh smart energy council um is involved in um uh sourcing uh inspectors under the program. That's a competitive uh process. uh that process uh has been uh longstanding.
>> All right. Well, if we could provide if we could have any further details of that on notice uh in including whether your agency has raised any issues in relation to that because obviously the independence of your agency is very important. >> Uh thank you. Um chair I do want to oh no we sorry need to share the call around with you all.
Sorry,
>> I don't have any further questions if we're happy to move to the next.
>> Yes, I think that's an appropriate juncture to excuse the witnesses from the clean energy regulator. You go with the committees. Thanks. We appreciate the work that goes into preparing for estimates and appearing here. I now welcome Senator the Honorable Murray Watt, Minister for the Environment and Water. And um