Senate Environment and Communications Legislation Committee [Part 2], , 21:27 to 31:25
Senator Hanson questions the agency regarding reports of unlicensed foreign workers in the solar industry and the status of active compliance investigations.
Topics: Renewable energy, Integrity, Public safety
Speakers: Hon Sarah Henderson, Carl Binning, Tony Chappel, Jane Wardlaw, Unknown Speaker, Hon Murray Watt, Interjection, Mr. Tony Chappel, Ms. Jane Wardlaw
>> thank you very much. I want to ask some questions in relation to the cheaper home batteries program and I refer to a series of media reports from the ABC about this program. I note Minister Bowen has consistently declined to be interviewed by the ABC. Uh on the 8th of September 2026, the ABC reported on whistleblower concerns about unlicensed foreign workers undertaking battery installations. I also note that your agency has declined to be interviewed which is very disappointing. Can I ask how many unlicensed workers is the agency aware of that are carrying out inspections?
>> I'll just thank you, Senator. I'll just see if we have that to hand otherwise we might need to
revert. Uh so Senator um I'm not aware of a specific number of um unlicensed or foreign workers um that are associated with installation. What I can tell you is that to qualify uh for an incentive uh under the program um the installer u must uh be accredited. Um
>> sorry can I just stop you there Mr. I just want to focus on the unlicensed workers. So are you saying you don't have any number? You don't know what that is? Have you investigated this? Have you interrogated it? What information do you hold about this?
>> So when um uh someone applies uh under the program uh Senator um they must uh register uh with us and they must demonstrate that they are present on site and so the installer must be a registered installer. We require three photographs. So, the installer So, Senator, if you just bear with me, I'll I'll get to the heart of my my response to your question.
>> Thank you.
>> The installer must be photographed three times and they have the accountability to sign that office complying with the state and territory electrical requirements. Now there may be other people at site that are assisting with the manual labor but the person who is responsible for certifying and ensuring full compliance with state and territory requirements must be a licensed electrician who is accredited by solar accredititation Australia as meeting the requirements.
>> Okay what the requirements are but really want to get to the heart of my question. Are you aware of unlicensed foreign workers using the scheme?
>> Um, not as a not as accredited installers are similar.
>> No, no, I'm not. I My question was, are you aware of unlicensed foreign workers utilizing this scheme? I
mean, I think perhaps the the best way to answer that, Senator, is um simply to note that we have a number of ongoing investigations uh related to registration and compliance with the scheme. I'm happy to take on notice the specifics about foreign um elements there. Uh but we have a zero tolerance approach for any poor business practice that can create an adverse outcome for the customer. We work with other agencies in the consumer space and the safety space where we don't have the direct remitt as the stewards of the
system. >> In relation to your investigations, how many cases are you investigating of non-compliance and do any of them involve a foreign workers, unlicensed foreign workers utilizing the scheme? and
>> uh Senator
>> Yeah. And to
>> be to add Jane Waw, [clears throat] acting executive general manager. Um so we have recently secured a criminal conviction. Uh so that was on the 1st of September of this year. So that was in relation to um a an installer who was relying on false statements and that included claiming that a registered installer was on site and installing they were not.
>> I'm really interested in that part that information. But I do want to go back to Mr. Chappel because my my question to you Mr. chappel is uh how many investigations are underway right now into unlicensed uh people using this scheme including foreign workers.
>> Um I can't give you a specific number on um the foreign worker component. I can say that um we have over 60 u either matters under investigation or consideration to progress with ourselves or a partner agency that may um be in that space. We've have um I think in the last financial year um almost 400 referrals that we considered um but I need to take your question I think on notice to get you a specific
>> well I I am actually keen for you to share with us as much as you know because this is a enormous concern. So over 400 potential investigations 60 under active
think I've misspoken. I was actually looking at numbers from the the previous financial year. In in the current year, I can see um this is this is for the small scale scheme. So, it includes solar uh panels and batteries, and some people do one or the other, not both. >> Sure. >> Um but I think we've received 119 referrals to date. Um, and we have a number of those under investigation, but I I need to um seek some advice to
active investigation?
>> Um, I don't have that number today in front of me, but I'm very happy to provide it on notice.
>> Okay. Well, what you mentioned over over 60. So, what's that number?
>> I'm sorry. that was the previous financial year that were either matters um progressing to investigation or um that had been referred to external agencies. There are some elements of the program where there may be a legal violation but maybe in the consumer under consumer law for example where the CR is not the regulator um or an electrical standard issue um which is a state or territory regulator. So there's
>> so 119 matters have been referred to you for investigation. What do they involve? Are we talking fraud? Are we talking safety? Uh we talking unlicensed
>> could I think
>> people what is the scope of the matters that you are investigating and of those 119 referrals are they all under investigation currently?
>> Uh I might hand to Mr. who leads this area
>> and it may be necessary for the officials to take some of this on notice, but if they can answer, I'm sure
>> So, Senator, just to specifically go to your question about foreign uh workers again, just to be as clear as we can be today, I'm not aware of uh any um installations that have been claimed by an unlicensed foreign person. as I can say um people that come to site to work on solar installations there's trenching and all sorts of manual work involved and I'm sure there are many foreign workers on appropriate visas etc that are involved in that work but I will take on notice >> to verify that that is true
>> Mr. Bin Salleh, you say you're not aware, but this has been reported in the mainstream media.
>> Yeah, but Senator, so in saying that I'm not aware, I would expect uh that I would be uh aware.
>> Are you aware of the reports?
>> Yes, I am aware.
>> Right. So, you do have some awareness
>> and and there are very rigorous standards as Mr. Binning sought to um just lay out that to be eligible to participate in the scheme and certainly to >> sure that they need to be accredited through
>> if I know I understand that the just of the 119 referrals of the >> sorry Mr. of the 119 referrals I've just we've got limited time so I need to >> ask if you can be very precise in your answers how many of those matters are under investigation and how would you break them down in terms of do you have a number of how many maybe are fraud related safety related uh non-registration could you do you have a breakdown of the of the description of the complaint
>> yeah so senator I can provide further information on notice. Um, in the year 2526 of the 355 matters that were before us, 17 progressed uh to an internal investigation. Um,
>> so 3
>> 55 17 progressed uh to an investigation and there were 45 other matters generally around consumer protection that would have been referred uh to other agencies. So we meet regularly uh with state and uh territory uh regulators uh both for electrical safety uh and uh for consumer protection
>> fraud consumer protection did you say
>> all of that what I would say the 17
>> so there's sorry just to be I've just got to stop you between 25 and 26
>> in the financial year 25 26
>> and what about of those 17 investigations how many did How many resulted in a finding or a a conviction or could you could you just detail?
>> I I think I don't think we can actually comment on investigations that are still current and some um are very much live. >> Okay. That's the 17 that are still live.
Are they
>> any of that? Um
>> but those figures were 25 26