Senate Environment and Communications Legislation Committee [Part 2], , 3:49:41 to 4:03:20
Executives provide updates on the LPO Reimagine program and partnerships with the Pharmacy Guild. Senators raise concerns about specific post office closures, such as Innaloo, and the sale of illegal tobacco at some outlets.
Topics: Infrastructure, Procurement
Speakers: Mr. Paul Graham, Senator Dean Smith, Senator Sarah Henderson, Mr. Josh Bannister, Speaker 1
>> Uh, thank you very much, chair. Very I'll be very quick. Uh, just in relation to the [clears throat] the document that we uncovered, Mr. Graham, has there been any changes made to that plan? And I do I'm aware that there's been an email sent to all post office u licensed post offices in relation to that the LPO reimagine program.
>> That's correct Senator. Uh there has been some changes as you know Senator uh in that document there were two components uh that were highlighted. one was regional Australia uh and invested an extra $30 million to sustain uh the existence of those post offices. Uh that part of our program uh is one that we are uh continue to support. The second part
>> but has that been delayed?
>> No, it has not been delayed. No. Uh the second component uh we're still in consultation as to how we would execute that. Right. >> Uh but it's not been delayed. The second part as you were aware was to uh look at conducting a trial. Uh we had done two previous successful campaigns in relation to buybacks in metropolitan areas uh and we were suggesting to do another trial to execute that. Uh we've decided to put that that trial on hold. Uh we have a lot going on in the postal network at the moment. Uh and we've decided uh that we would put that uh current trial on hold.
>> And why did you make that decision?
>> Uh we made that decision uh based on feedback that we have received. uh we made that decision based on the amount of activity that's going on in relation to our overall postal network and the amount of change it can absorb at any one time. Uh and this is the whole purpose of consultation is to provide that feedback and for us to sit back as uh as executives uh and ascertain what is the right way forward. But we certainly feel that it that continuing with the regional investment uh is appropriate this time. But at this point in time, the buyback program, the trial that we were anticipating, we've decided to put on hold
>> because that went down like a lead
>> Well, we we received uh feedback. Actually, Senator, we've ran that program twice before very successfully. So, it did not go down like a lead balloon. We just felt at this point in time uh that it was not appropriate uh to execute that trial and therefore
entered into any formal agreement in relation to establishing postal services at pharmacies?
>> Uh no formal agreement, Senator, has been uh reached with the pharmacy guild or pharmacists. We have 127 post offices where we are in conjunction with pharmacies and that's been in place for over 25 years with Australia Post.
>> Well, have you entered into any type of agreement whatsoever? No.
with the pharmacy guild. What we are
>> discuss >> discussions or
>> yes we've had they're a partner of ours and 127 uh uh post office senator. So we have ongoing dialogue uh with the pharmacy guild. We have uh ongoing dialogue with them in relation to other services we provide like uh same day delivery uh of pharmaceuticals to people who are are stuck at home. Uh we find uh that the feedback we have got from consumers in relation to thosearmacies that are in conjunction with the post office uh uh to be very positive uh both for the consumer because they can obviously go and uh get their uh pharmaceuticals as well as their mail and their parcels and for the pharmacy because they generate foot traffic.
Aren't you severely affecting the local post office if you're establishing a competing service at a pharmacy? And I understand there's also been some reduced rates that are now payable for certain types of services as a result of
>> no s that's not correct because the these are these are not replacing existing pharmacies. These are where we have an opportunity where a lency for example like kymley is a good example where the lency decided to to leave. Uh so we approached a local pharmacy who was interested in setting up initially a CPA and has now gone to be a full LPO.
>> I'm I'm just getting some confusing information about the nature of your agreement with the guild. uh is there any type of agreement in any shape or form formal informal memorandum of understanding with the guild or with any group of pharmacies?
>> Uh no uh there is noou uh uh in place but as I say we have an ongoing relationship with pharmacies uh and therefore through that with the guild.
>> All right. Can I ask for all correspondence between Australia Post and the pharmacy guild since the 1st of July last year?
>> I will take that on.
>> Thank you. And I'm also asking for all injury data that you hold which was again reiterating that I'm seeking for that question to be answered.
>> We have provided you with the data that we have Senator in relation to it. Obviously with the workforce of 65,000 people that data is extensive.
>> I'm seeking that the the information Mr. Graham uh it's available in different parts of posts. There are certain people who hold that information as I wrote to you and raise concerns. I'm asking for that information if it can be compiled and provided to the committee. Please
>> happy to provide it. Senator
>> very quickly I'm concerned about the fact that there may well be businesses which have or which are also operating as postal outlets which are selling illegal tobacco. >> Mhm. >> What is Australia Post doing about that?
Uh yes, we take obviously a very strong view. We had in the press last week one of our licensed post officers in Barara Heights who was arrested uh for selling illegal tobacco. Uh and obviously that license uh has been withdrawn from that individual. Uh we have I think raised this before and certainly from questions from Senator Smith. Uh it is a very difficult and challenging situation. uh if we come if it comes to our attention uh that any post office is selling uh anything illegal uh and in this case tobacco then obviously their license will be suspended and we will report them to the authorities.
>> And are there any uh such investigations underway and if so how many?
>> Uh I'm not aware of any investigations. However, Senator there is work that that is done on an ongoing basis with the AFP. Uh and uh we for example had a successful uh prosecution of the FP successful prosecution last year uh when uh there was a again for one of a better word uh that was arrested uh that was dealing in the delivery of illegal tobacco to what we called dead drops. So these were houses they knew were empty uh delivering uh tobacco uh and then they would come across later on and pick that up. uh we worked with the AFP in close cooperation which resulted in the arrest of about 11 people. So we continually look look for it but it is is a challenging situation Senator I
>> Um thanks Mr. Graham. I'll have to leave it at that due to the time of course.
>> Okay. Thank you.
>> Thank you chair.
>> Oh certainly Senator Smith is local. So
I want to turn to the closure of the Inaloo Post Office. So, a couple of and thank you to uh Australia Post for responding by email to my uh various questions over the last uh month or so. Australia Post had a consultation a public consultation process that went for all of 16 days. Four of those were weekend days. Uh during that consultation process, you received 24 responses. 19 of them were online and five of them were handwritten. But since then, I've received 1,200 signatures on a petition opposed to the closure of the Inaloo Post Office. I was just curious to know how robust your consultation public survey process is when you get 24 responses and I get through the active work of local counselors uh 1,200 signatures from local residents opposing the closure.
>> Thank you Senator for the question. I'll refer to my colleague Mr. Bannister who's >> [clears throat] >> uh directly involved with with the retail network. Uh it's fair to say that uh closing any post office is an emotional issue for those communities. Uh and I'm not surprised by the extent of the signatures that you have received. Uh it's quite a common occurrence, but I'll refer to my colleague, Mr. Banners, who's got all the detail.
>> Thank you, Mr. Graham. Thank you, Senator, for the question. Let me acknowledge the impact that a post office closure has on a community. Uh these are difficult decisions and they're not ones that we take lightly. The process that you refer to is an engagement process. Uh it is more robust than it has ever been. Uh but this is the first time we have run that new process and we're constantly looking at
>> this is the test of the robustness of the process. I get 1,200 responses you get 29.
>> Yeah, I I I acknowledge that Senator what we did get though is we got feedback around how we could support the community with transition. That particular locality of Inu has eight post offices within 5 km. The closest being around 1.95 km away. You know that
because you've been to the inter post office and seen it for yourself.
>> I have. I've been to the market. I spend time in all of the markets around the country visiting licences and our corporate post office teams. As I said, they're difficult decisions and we weigh up a number of factors. Uh we look at impact on community and you know, you've got some feedback there which we acknowledge. Uh there are also commercial considerations and this is a high-profile shopping center uh with escalating rent. Uh and these are things that we have to consider based on the density of surrounding post offices. We've worked hard in our surrounding post office network. We have upgraded facilities both with investment at Karanup and Osbbor Park DC. We've extended ours and we've extended a number of our services at the surrounding post offices.
>> So when I inquired with Australia Post about the various factors that would that were contributing to the closure of the Interloo Post Office, uh rents was not mentioned. Rents was not mentioned. What can you tell me about the financial performance of the ini post office? Because when I was when I asked that question uh the very very helpful Australia post official uh declined to provide me with any sort of granularity around the financials. So what's happening at in post office financially at a high level at a high level but you mentioned rents.
>> Yeah it is a lossmaking post office or was a lossmaking post office with declining foot traffic. Uh one of the things that we've done in transition is we've made a conscious decision to retain the PO boxes. Uh and that was one of the things that we were able to do to support the community with transition that maintains a rental at that particular location. But that is something that we wanted to do uh despite the fact that we haven't maintained the full service post office uh and we're leaning on the surrounding facility and each time we close a post office again let me acknowledge the impact on community particularly elderly and vulnerable it does support the remaining post office including licenses in the surrounding market.
>> So when uh uh I was told about declining foot traffic I was told that the decline was of 10%. 10% that did not sound like a very very strong justification. What's the what what does that 10% represent in terms of raw numbers of foot traffic into in
>> Let me take that on notice, Senator, because uh I don't believe that that number accurately represents the decline
given to me in an email with an exchange between um Australia Post staff that obviously report through to you who was very very helpful over the last month or so that I've been engaged in this issue but 10% decline in foot traffic is what was that that was the justification that was provided to me uh which struck me as being now I don't know what the raw numbers were but a 10% decline did not to me sound like a very very strong argument for closure
>> in in isolation. Senator, I I would agree with you, but that may have been the last 12 months. You probably would have found that that's been quite consistent, but we'll give you the details. Senator, I agree it's an important data point that should be should be delivered to you.
>> So, on the 9th of October, Mr. Graeme, I think the city of Sterling, which is the local government area, uh wrote to you um and I think they're keen. They've not yet had a response. Uh so if you could deal with that um expeditiously that would be much appreciated and Minister they also wrote to Minister Wells so they could have the courtesy of a response as well. I understand that the Australia Post board might be visiting Western Australia.
>> We are Sander and we invited uh your good self. I know that it's a sitting week and you can't attend and again I'm happy I'll be over there for the board meeting. I'm happy to reach out personally and and meet with the mayor and other uh constituents within the in
>> That's very very generous of you and I will absolutely take you up. I will not be there but I'll absolutely facilitate uh that. Thank you very much. Thank you.
>> Thank you Senator
>> 1,200 Senator Smith's consultation process Australia post consultation process just >> Thank you.
>> Thank you Senator.
>> Thank you Senator Smith. Uh on that note uh we say thank you to the officials from Australia Post. Thank you Australian Postal Corporation and uh Mr. Graeme wish you all the very best in your retirement.