Senate Education and Employment Legislation Committee, , 6:20:11 to 6:25:39
Review of the Joint Agency Working Group's role in deconflicting matters and the necessity of law enforcement support for the CFMEU administrator's work.
Topics: AFP, Workplace relations, Integrity
Speakers: Senator Jane Hume, Murray Furlong, Patrick Coyle, Unknown Speaker
Senator, through our participation in the joint agency working group, we will have had some vision of those matters, but obviously that's a that's a matter as between two law enforcement agencies and we only have a tangential role in that regard.
So you were aware of it?
Senator, yes.
Yeah, okay. So that led to Victorian and Queensland Police to run their own probe and conduct raids in September. The government has since said that it had full confidence in the AFP and that operation operational decisions are independent. But I think the frustration of the Commission is clear. Can I ask when you became aware or where or was that raised, that issue raised in the joint agency working group?
Sorry, can you clarify the question, please, Senator?
You have a joint agency working group, yes?
Yes.
Okay. The fact that the AFP had declined a request for Victoria Police to allege to investigate alleged Commonwealth corrupting benefits offences. Was that raised in that group?
Senator have to take on notice specifically, but the joint agency working group is an opportunity for agencies to come together to deconflict possible matters. So there are discussions generally about reports of information that come through and which agency may or may not accept it. I think it would be fair to say in the it remains, however, under the joint agency working group a matter for each agency as to whether they will or will not accept or investigate a referral that might be made.
Yes, I can understand that. Was it an issue that was raised in that group though?
I gave evidence before that I understood, but my recollection was that through the joint agency working group there was some discussions about whether matters would be referred to the AFP in that case.
If you wish Senator, we can take it on notice, provide some further information on that and other referrals that were made to the AFP. In so much that they've incurred and provide you with the documentation around those.
That would be good. I don't need you to breach any confidences about what those incidences were, but if there have been incidences, I would really be interested in the number and the dates that they were referred and whether the AFP had since pursued them.
Okay, and if it's appropriate the substance of those referrals as well.
That would be terrific if if appropriate, but I don't want to put a jeopardy the rest of the information if you can't share the specifics. Can I ask, did you inform the minister or the department that you'd written to the AFP on this issue?
Not that I can recall, but in the normal course of things, I wouldn't. Yeah, I'm an independent Secretary Officer Independent Regulator. I may have had a conversation with the senior official at the department, but it was it wouldn't have been the decision would have been made before the letter would have been sent before any conversation had occurred.
Okay. In that letter, you specifically stated that the CFM EU administration cannot by itself resolve those issues. Is that a statement that you stand by?
Yes, I do.
So what more do you believe is needed from law enforcement if the administration on its own cannot resolve these issues?
I think it requires the best efforts of everyone involved. As I was listening to the evidence earlier this afternoon, so contemplating the contribution that other industry participants have been uh have made. Late last year I gave a presentation to Tier 1 builders, CEOs, very senior people, Tier 1 T1 builders in Victoria. And in that, and I'm happy to table that presentation. But I conclude that presentation by saying that it requires conspicuous leadership from everyone to the CFMU itself can cannot resolve all the issues because all the issues don't just rest with the CFMU. It is the bit it is the activities of other very senior people in the industry that need to need to contribute to the solution. So one of the things is that there's significant roughly so focus on the CFMU. What I asked for last year in this presentation to these very senior officials from Tier 1s is that they need to contribute to the solution and they need to show it, start showing conspicuous leadership. And I said that if we were to meet again in 12 months' time, what would you like to be able to say? I think I might have said, what would you like to be able to say to you to your children that you were able to have achieved over the last 12 months? We can't run through that 12 months now.
I suppose the concern of the Commission and indeed I know of the opposition is that uh unless there is law enforcement attached to the work of the Commission, then the good work of the sorry the good work of the administrator, any good work of the administrator will be for naught if there is not subsequent law enforcement action.
I think that's absolutely accurate, and it's consistent with what Mark or Mr. Crosby has indicated as well.