Senate Education and Employment Legislation Committee, , 3:58:12 to 4:01:43
Inquiry into whether removed CFMEU officials can hold right of entry permits and the criteria for fit and proper person certificates.
Topics: Workplace relations, Integrity
Speakers: Sarah Godden, Senator Maria Kovacic, Greg Manning, Senator Jane Hume, Senator Marielle Smith
Can I just sorry I'll say that's a good question? Yes, sorry.
I was just going to say I have a small block for these witnesses. Do you prefer we do that now or change the witnesses? I don't mind.
That's probably best. So, Senator Kavasik.
Is that okay, and then I'll be quick. Yeah, perfect. Um The Fair Work Commission confirmed to me last December that a removed person can hold a right of entry permit if they retain the administrator's trust and confidence. Are you able to tell me how many removed persons now hold permits?
That would be only if they stayed within the um CFMEU, Senator, they couldn't move to another um union and keep that rate of entry permit. We don't have uh data on the numbers of um uh CFMU uh persons who would be removed persons and also hold right of entry permits.
Right. And so you don't collect or receive that data?
No, Senator.
Um can you tell me whether a person disqualified under the administrator scheme can take up a position in another registered entity today under the rules?
Um so that will go to the uh removed person scheme that Mr. Manning uh set out. So if their role as an officer is come to an end, um their employment ends or their role as a workplace delegate comes to an end, or during a period of suspension in any of those three categories, um the remove person must not become a candidate for or be appointed to an office in a registered organization, start to be employed. In or engaged by a registered organization, or be a bargaining representative, or purport to be a bargaining representative, or hold out that they are a bargaining representative unless they have been issued by a certificate. That's the fit and proper person certificate by the Fair Work Commission.
Right. Okay. So what I'm trying to understand is whether that's exactly the gap that our bill is trying to close. So that they can't move from one to the other. So they they effectively can. They can move from one registered organisation to another, correct?
Only if the Fair Work Commission determines that they are fit and proper to do so, yes.
Yeah. So that's and that was my question. Are you aware of any removed or disqualified persons who have taken up a role with another union or related entity? But you don't collect the data on that.
No, Senator. I'm certainly aware that some fit and proper person certificates have been issued, whether the person who has obtained the certificate has gone on to have employment. I I would have to take on notice whether we have that information. It may have come up in discussions with either the Fair Work Commission or the administration.
But no one tracks the movement of those individuals across entities.
No, I mean one I I don't think we formally track it once the Fairwork, because if the Fairwork Commission is determined that they're fit and proper to undertake a role in another organisation, then they're open to do that.
Do you know if they track it? I'm just curious, do we know where these people are?
Yeah, I'm not sure if they track it.