Senate Education and Employment Legislation Committee, , 1:51:51 to 1:58:32
Review of meetings with unions, employer groups, and the Law Council, and the coordination of portfolio responsibilities between departments.
Topics: Workplace relations, Lobbying
Speakers: Senator Paul Scarr, Elizabeth Brayshaw, Greg Manning, Simon Duggan, Unknown Speaker, Speaker 16
That's all my questions.
Yes, I've got more questions in relation to this area. So if you could please state the table. Just to follow up in terms of Ms. Brayshaw, you you referred to the interaction with the registrars or whatever we called them in relation to the courts. Was that the first interaction between the department and the courts in relation to this matter?
Senator, that was my first task was established in August. And so that was my first introductory meeting.
As I said, I thought I think I said earlier in evidence. So Attorney General's department has led consultation with the courts given their portfolio relationship. We haven't had separate contact with them before that. So as I understand the evidence they gave on Monday was that the courts were told on the day of the announcement. And then I I think there were conversations between Attorney General's appointment courts before then, but again, I would I would have to check that or refer back to that Hansard. And this was our first engagement with the courts.
Okay. So the first engagement was after this. What do you call it, this committee?
First engagement of the task force.
Task force. Okay. Okay.
between the announcement and that consultation? What I can't give evidence as to is any engagement the Attorney General's department had with the courts. That would really be a question.
But you didn't have any consultation with the courts in the process of giving the briefings to the Minister back in since you started this stream of work in December late last year, up until the last briefing you gave on 20 July, you didn't have any consultation with the courts, correct?
That's yes, that's my recollection tonight.
That's your recollection. Okay. Thank you. But you'll check that on notice. Okay. Thank you. So Ms. Brayshaw, just in relation to the structure of this task force, which department is the lead agency?
Very much a joint effort, Senator.
Is that what you call it?
I would say I would say that it's a it is a joint task force and it is co-led, but I think there's an understanding and an underpinning that both ministers have portfolio responsibilities. And so within that Attorney General's department brings expertise relating to the federal courts and the system and as Mr. Manning mentioned appointments, in terms of Department of Employment and Workplace Relations, we bring expertise in relation to workplace relations policy and the framework and settings within that system and some of the issues.
And obviously the Fairwork Commissions and our portfolio.
So Senator, I had a good conversation with the Secretary of the Attorney General's department about how to how to establish and structure this task force.
When was that, Secretary?
So that was post-announcement. So would have been within a week or two, I'd imagine, but I can take on notice precisely when if that's helpful, Senator. But the we basically came to the conclusion that we both had very significant equities and therefore it made most sense for it to be joined. But Ms. Brayshaw, in a sense, has that overall coordination responsibility through the task force. So she brings together the endeavours of both the Attorney General's department and our department to bring that together.
Okay. So when when was it formally established? When was the kick-off?
Senator, it was early August. Can I take it on notice?
Yeah. And how many staff?
So there are 13 staff from the Department of Employment and Workplace Relations. And I'd need to check with Attorney Generals as to their numbers, but I think it's if I can take that on notice. Senator, in terms of that budget.
There's no separate separate budget for it, Senator. I mean we're obviously paying for those for the each department's paying for its staff who are working on it, Senator. There was sorry.
So we brought it together within the workplace relations group in terms of the department's contribution to the task force, and so it draws on the existing resources of that group, Senator.
Okay. So Ms. Brayshaw, you you're engaging with stakeholders now. Is that correct?
We have started engaging with stakeholders as as well as setting out doing you know project planning, looking at what needs to be developed in terms of those key design features, meeting with the Federal Courts and Fairwork Commission and understanding their operational insights.
Okay. So which stakeholders have you been meeting with?
Senator, in terms of the stakeholders we've met with, we've had an initial series of consultations as mentioned to Senator Pocock, which includes the union and their union representatives as well as employer group representatives and the Law Council of Australia?
Okay.
This was an initial set of consultations. And I should say we've also had meetings with the Fairwork Ombudsman, the Fairwork Commission, the Federal Court of Australia and the Federal Circuit and Family Court of Australia?
Okay.
And obviously Central government agencies are engaged in the work itself, as we said in relation to the Ban 3 steering committee that sits above it, central agencies, so Treasury Finance, Prime Minister and Cameron come along to that as well.
So Mr. Manning, when you were engaged in the process from late December through to 20 July, did you have any engagement with external stakeholders, stakeholders outside of government?
I would um not outside of government, no, I would have discussed it with the Fair Work Commission at some time in that in that period.
So is it true to say that the first to your knowledge that the first any external stakeholders would have known about this was when the Prime Minister made his announcement on the 23rd of July?
Senator, we can only talk to the Department's engagement. That's what I'm asking whether a local minister or office had any engagement that I had announced that we can provide evidence to the Mr.
But you're not you're not aware of any other engagement prior to 23 July.
I'm not aware of engagement with this department prior to 23 July.
Were you involved in the briefing that was given to business groups on as I understand it at 8am on 23 July?