Senate Education and Employment Legislation Committee, , 4:20:28 to 4:25:31
Discussion on the risks of AI disrupting foundational learning in early primary school and the importance of explicit instruction over generative AI tools for long-term retention.
Topics: Education, Artificial intelligence, Child safety
Speakers: Dr Jennifer Donovan, Senator Matt O'Sullivan, Unknown Speaker, Senator Marielle Smith
point? Why why not?
>> We haven't gone quite so far as to to make that the recommendation, but we have suggested that that be a consideration for teachers. The reason is the teaching that's happening at that time when we're just teaching children about how to read and write very complex things to learn. It needs to be done in a very particular way. a scientifically based, evidence-based way. And that involves an expert, the teacher, leading the children through carefully sequenced, explicit instruction where the children get to learn a new, hear a new concept, see it modeled for them, practice it with the teacher before they move off into independent practice. And that takes a while. Reading is really complicated. writing even more so. And if we disrupt that process with very young children, we run the risk that they never firmly establish those foundational knowledge and skills and that will affect their ability to learn throughout the rest of their schooling and lives.
>> And is that that neuroplasticity?
>> Exactly. They need to build up um the the the cognitive architecture and they need to be increasing. They even once they've got beyond those basic skills, they need to be building up knowledge. They need to be accumulating knowledge in their long-term memories so that they can use it in application in their thinking, problem solving, critical thinking throughout their schooling. G
>> gi given the importance of this, do you see that there are any gaps uh in our collection of data uh our understanding of the issue that that really should be
addressed urgently? Yes, we we need to know more about what is happening in classrooms and we need to be able to do some research, set up some experiments, generate the kind of data that just doesn't exist for us at the moment around important questions like how much screen time is too much. At what age is it most appropriate to be implementing and what is the most effective way to be introducing technologies like AI to
children? Is there any evidence that you're aware of that demonstrates that AI becomes beneficial for students in year three and four?
>> No, I'm not aware of any evidence for that age group. There is some evidence about good uses of AIdriven technology for uh students um using tools for tutoring for for catchup for uh multi- instruction interventions systems of support interventions. There is some evidence that it can be useful for those. I have to say the balance of evidence available at the moment though points to the harm.
>> Yep. And so would I be right in saying that it should only be ever used to augment explicit instruction and other pedagogies to make sure that it student gets the wholesome whole.
>> Yes. Yes. The the foundational approach should be explicit teaching. >> Yeah. in the classroom setting and for those students who might need additional intervention it is possible that there are some technologies tools that could support that intervention.
>> Is there any evidence any reliable evidence that generative AI improves children's long-term retention of
>> Not that we're aware of at the moment. There is some evidence to suggest it gets in the way of their long-term retention of knowledge
>> at this point in time. Are you sorry
>> sorry it it it can create what we call an illusion of learning if children are allowed to use that word to use >> illusion of learning if children are allowed to use a tool to produce an assignment a project an essay
>> that seems to be the outcome of the study done in China
>> yes really similar findings exactly
>> yeah where where the actual um exams didn't show that they had actually retained the knowledge >> yes Yeah. Um, so is uh would you then therefore support requiring students to complete written assessments?
>> Written assessments are going to be much more reliable indicators um not only of their retention of the knowledge, the curriculum knowledge, but >> reassuring us that they know how to
>> What is Arrow's best estimate of the amount of time teaching time lost annually? Oh, it's a repeat. Don't worry about that. Um, I seem to have a cut and paste of some questions online. Sorry
>> use
reliable stuff. I'm not going to throw >> excellent. Well, I might wrap up there. Um, because that does uh that does conclude my AI questions. I was going to go back to disruption already.
>> Um, cuz I know you would.
>> Oh, thank you. Thank you. Can I just place Thank you so much for that work.
>> Thank you Senator Means a lot to my staff.