Senate Education and Employment Legislation Committee, , 6:27:17 to 6:37:19
Review of the Building Early Education Fund (BEEF) targets for new places and the potential for an Early Childhood Education Commission.
Topics: Education, Infrastructure
Speakers: Ms. Kylie Crane, Senator Matt O'Sullivan, Senator Jess Walsh, Mr. Tony Cook, Mr. Nathan Smyth, Mr. Brendan Moon, Senator Marielle Smith
>> Uh so Senator um that uh that data that we talked about um that we we can get kind of remoteness um classification if you like around that to understand has the mo the bulk of this happened in metro areas or others. What I would say certainly of the ones that we have seen in the last 12 months, the vast majority of closures have been in areas where there is um existing capacity elsewhere in other services. Uh and so it it um it would be an area that uh you might hear the sector or others talk about it has been over supplied in that sense. There are there are places there to take. That's not to say that is 100% of cases. Um, yes, we are aware of some areas where there hasn't been something else. Depending on what the reason is for uh a service looking to close and and this is kind of the before it happens piece. There are programs that the department has um and will work with the provider and states and governments around um sustainability funding and the like where it is an individual business decision and they are shutting doors. Um we might work with states and territories around what other offerings might be there. uh and in some instances that we've spoken previously in this for um Thorum around other service delivery uh means that we are trying to explore around in venue uh care or family daycare capability trial where we are looking at particularly those areas where centerbased daycare in and of itself may not be the viable uh option that may be one of the reasons why it closed and other forms of care
>> do you get a report like when when a service closes is there any information sharing back to view in relation to why the service closed.
>> Uh they certainly have to give us notification beforehand. Is the reason mandatory?
>> Um I might take on I'm relatively confident there is information on the notification of closure form. But Senator, if I can just so I don't mislead, if we can take on notice and bring back exactly what information
>> you know like keen to understand if there's information on whether it was the financial pressures, whether it was low enrollments, uh workforce shortages, voluntary closure or regulatory action >> responses. Um does the department monitor services or providers at risk of
Senator, when you say at risk of closure, um what what we would have visibility of and what gets talked about most predominantly is financial viability. In financial viability, we have uh the large provider reporting which Mr. Moon can talk about um which was implemented quite a number of years ago uh for exactly that reason to to look at um particularly the large providers um and what might be generating uh behind that if there's anything that's risk. We do not get that same data from small or medium providers.
>> And I go back to a lack report where they got 20 276 services at risk of closure. Like do you get do you get intel from the sector as to their their status and and how viable they are? And I mean I'm I'm hearing across the country particularly now in metropolitan areas, urban areas where uh viability is a problem because of over supply of service providers. Um so so occupancy rates are are low. Um some are reporting operating at about 50%. Um which I'd imagine I don't run a childcare center but I imagine that would be pretty hard to be viable and continue. Um so do you get that sort of intel? Uh so you got a I guess a bit of a desktop uh dashboard of of the state of the sector.
>> Uh anecdotal information. Yes. Um I wouldn't go so far as to say that it it's anything that would be um even a desktop worthy piece. Certainly we we have um a sector stakeholder group that we meet with regularly um through that and other correspondents or meetings. We will hear about certain things in certain parts of the sector or certain parts of the country uh depending on what is happening. So to that extent yes um nothing as as rigorous as probably what you have described in the lack of information that you have.
>> All right. Can I keep going chair or
>> Yeah, then. Yep.
>> Yep. Okay. Um I'll just move in a slightly different track. Um the the the department's fact sheet says that beef uh is was expected to support around 160 new or expanded services and deliver around 12,000 additional places. Uh does that remain the government's current estimate?
>> Um Senator, yes. >> Is that the answer?
>> And when will those
>> noting that? Sorry, noting that's in two components. So the first 500 million is what we're working on now. >> The second 500 million is part of the business that's being developed at the moment. So we're still on the first 500 million and that's the 48, I think you want to say. >> 48. >> 48. Thank you.
>> When when is it all when will all those places be operating?
uh Senator the uh it's going to take a number of years obviously for construction of a number of those sites and we are yet to finalize uh grant agreements through our echo round through our small scale round our large scale round as well. Um we intend to uh maximize the full $500 million to build as many services as possible. Uh the funding that we have runs until 28 uh29 and uh so we are um trying to uh get as many sites as possible. Certainly the 160 number is a target that we're working towards. Uh and at the moment um I think we're we're actually doing pretty well in relation to how we're tracking against that.
what's the net additional number like so if services are closing number of places been lost as a result of those closures you got 12,000 additional places what's the net
>> uh that's outside of beef I guess so the additional you're talking about is the 12,000 for beef
>> yeah and I guess I'm talking about the >> so it's 12,000 for beef. I get that.
>> The other bits a bit hard for us because new services will be opening which are related to this program for for profofit and not for profofit services will be opening. >> We don't have a forecast of what that looks like. I mean we look at we look at an average I guess you know we we know on average there's about 700 or so new services opening at the moment per year but we just don't have that data Senator. I'm sorry.
>> Sure. We're hearing that there's this trading almost. You've got you've got services closing, you've got services Uh there's media announcements that there's 12,000 additional places as a result of beef. What's the net addition? Like because if you take into account those that are closing, how many
>> I'll just I'll just start and let the department help with the the numbers that you want, but there's there's sort of two different issues there. where the building early education fund um is entirely focused on areas that are underserved, unserved uh and disadvantaged. Uh and so the effort there um is to build services where they are really needed. Um and then and Mr. SM can talk about that if he would like to around the the criteria that is used to identify um those places where those um numbers of services have a really really big impact. Um and then you are also looking at sort of the overall >> um numbers in the sector and as you pointed out um senator um there are some areas of over supply um and again I'll just give the top line and then you can sort of explore as you would like with me or others but um I think in the last year um as has been discussed 734 new services um 494 um surrendered or cancelled Um and um one of the other sort of policy responses that I think is important to talk about um is the potential for an early um education commission um which is a matter that's coming to um education ministers um next week. Um we we know we can see from all of the discussion that we're having here right now that there are areas that are underserved and there there are areas that are over supplied. We're seeing that play out. Um we think um a commission could assist with better strategic planning. Um of the kind that we're talking about.
>> Senator, I might so if you want to put this question because I know that was a partial answer and then we were going to the department and then I was going to rotate at that point.
>> Uh yeah, I'll have I'm happy to come
>> Yeah. or I can do it at this point.
>> So
>> I know the department was going to provide some data. Did you want me to rotate?
>> Well, I'm sure I'm going to explore their answer. So
>> I found the number. I'm sorry. I was grappling with it. So approved childcare places have increased by 25,000 places >> June 25 to June 2026.
>> Okay. Thank you.
>> So I'll I'll come back to you. Um and I'm coming to you now Senator Hodgins. May I'm just drawing the committee's attention um to the program. We are breaking at 3:45 which is when we are due to conclude early childhood. We'll obviously continue. Last there are still questions but I do just draw your attention to the fact that both um uh parties have requested all of the agencies seeing us for the rest of the day and we do need to get to them as