Senate Education and Employment Legislation Committee, , 5:27:59 to 5:33:19
Following a Four Corners report on child abuse, senators question whether CCTV acts as a deterrent or merely documents abuse, emphasizing that it is not a substitute for active supervision.
Topics: Child safety, Public safety
Speakers: Senator Matt O'Sullivan, Senator Jess Walsh, Ms. Kylie Crane
the four corners report on Monday night. I'm sure everyone saw it and I know Minister, you were in it and you were shown the footage um of that horrible footage and let's face it, it was very hard viewing to see that poor child abused in that way over such a long period of time. Um, and it should be said that uh obviously terrible and and I hope that the child's going okay. Um, but the the CCTV CCTV footage captured that abuse and that footage uh has been really was vital in the evidence, but it did not stop the abuse from happening. Do we accept that? Do you accept that CCTV can document abuse without necessarily preventing it from happening or identifying it promptly?
Senator, I um again without set aside the the assessment and what might have been in that process. Um I think the commentary that's been made around CCTV to today from a range of um players including academics, the sector uh ministers themselves goes to there being a range of things in place that supports child safety. Um to your point, the the fact that a CCTV is in place um may not necessarily pres prevent an incident. It may deter somebody from doing something, but yes, and certainly in the tragic case that was shown there, um, it did not prevent that from happening.
>> Should there be a system for regularly reviewing CCTV footage to identify potential abuse rather than waiting until a complaint or a warning sign is raised before anyone checks it?
>> I said that would be going to a matter of opinion uh from our side. So, um, we can't talk on that. But, as Mr. concern has indicated uh the the assessment did go to some of those matters uh and and when it's reviewed and when it's not.
>> Well, Minister, I'll ask I'll ask the question to you then. Uh, is the government considering changing the way that CCTV would be used so that it's used is regularly reviewed and not just acted upon when there's a complaint so that it's a more of a deterrent than just a way of recording instances.
>> Um, Senator, as you said, that was a, you know, a really horrific um incident and, you know, we've all seen the the footage of it. uh and it should never have happened. Uh and of course um very briefly, Senator, the person who committed those offenses is of course in jail. The service is closed. >> The funding was cut. Um, in relation to CCTV, I think what I hear when I uh visit services uh and talk to educators um and review the practices in services myself. Um what I see and what I think we could see from um that expose on four corners is that CCTV itself uh is not a substitute for active supervision. Um there were many sort of issues in that particular um incident. Um but the fact that there was no active supervision of what was occurring in that room I think really is the issue. um when it comes to whether CCTV can um you know assist in helping keep children safe and um how we can um better use that including the question you've raised about review. Yeah. >> Um you know my general approach would be that um we have a body of of work um coming to us. Um it's coming to us next week and we should all and will all as education ministers consider that work.
I I suppose even the fact that actor's supervision wasn't uh happening there, CCTV, if it was regularly reviewed, the very fact that there was an act of supervision would be revealed by the CCTV footage showing that there wasn't active supervision. Uh do you know what I mean? So it's it's it's not just the the CCDV capturing uh harm perpetrated but also you know the improper practices of a centaur not not not complying with their requirements to provide active Yeah. So it goes further than that. Um you I'm happy for you to respond but I'm also to move on in um in response to question on notice SQ26 triple0699. The department said it did not or does not hold or have access to data on the prevalence of child abuse and neglect in early childhood education settings. Without that information, how how's it possible for the government to measure whether its child safety measures, including the CCTV assessment, are actually improving outcomes for