Senate Education and Employment Legislation Committee, , 2:50:02 to 2:55:50
The department details briefings provided to the minister on AI and the development of a national framework focused on the purposeful and deliberate use of technology in classrooms.
Topics: Education, Artificial intelligence
Speakers: Senator Matt O'Sullivan, Senator Jess Walsh, Ms. Meg Brighton, Mr. Tony Cook, Unknown Speaker
>> You you rejected the premise of my question in the first part of your long answer there. The the fact of the matter is that in 2023 we had comments from the minister in relation to encouraging people's use of AI. He's now uh um been more circumspect in the way that he discusses that. Uh so there has been a change and my question was simply about the fact that there has been a change and I was asking when he made that change. You mentioned the the minister's meeting next week with all other ministers. Uh will will he back the coalition's policy and I commend my colleague Mr. Lisa for uh his position on this for drastically reducing screen time and AI use by students across Australia particularly particularly those very young students.
>> Sorry, who missed the last part of your
question? And if you will he back the the coalition's policy to uh reduce screen time and AI use by students across Australia, particularly for very young students.
>> Um well from my participation in education ministers um meetings, I can say um without you know disclosing um all of the contents of those meetings that this issue um has been discussed um at those meetings. um uh for some time and been raised for some time. Uh and the department um has given evidence um to you today, Senator, that um work has been uh underway um for some time uh in relation um to um digital detox. um decisions of um the education ministers meeting um of course are decisions for um all ministers um there's some really interesting work um going on um in the states and territories um in Victoria for example in other states um that have started to implement um screen time bans um in different settings um we've been discussing that at education ministers meetings for some time uh and education ministers will come together uh to consider the work that is put before them on Monday.
>> Has the department ever specifically briefed the minister or his office on the impacts of AI learning, brain plasticity and or development?
Senator, we we've probably been briefing on AI for several years now, particularly in some of the work that was done in 2023, I think, around the development of the national framework around generative AI in schools. So we've been briefing I would I'll ask Miss Brighton because she won't know the detail but for you know not this year not just this year it's been previous years that we've been doing that because education ministers did agree to a framework around gender AI in schools in 2023 that was reviewed again in 2024 I think
>> has the advice shifted over that time
>> oh look I mean
>> I appreciate you know there's been significant advancements in
>> you beat me to it I was going to say I even
>> so so is that predicate has that meant that we've had to change the advice.
>> We would always change our advice based on evidence and you know you even quoted the Chinese >> research that's come out. Arrow I know Arrow's with us a little later. Arrow's done some really really interesting work around this as well. Um uh New South Wales, as Miss Brighten said, New South Wales is doing some um research into that particularly around device usage and they've made some of that available over the last couple of weeks. So I would absolutely say our advice has has um grown based on more information that's available to us as it should. Uh but in terms of briefing the minister or the government, we've been doing this for quite a while now, Miss Broken.
>> Yeah. And Senator, the um the premise of of the work that we've been doing both states and territories and education ministers is that technology has for some time be changed in the face of teaching and learning. And um that technology presents an absolute opportunity and when I say technology I don't mean just edtech but I also mean AI and generative AI um and it has an opportunity to have educational benefits but systems and schools need to be ensuring that it's really quite purposeful and effective. So if technology is going to be used in schools, it really needs to serve a very an education purpose. And it's a pretty nuanced uh discussion. But if we take it back to the AI framework that was endorsed in 2023, um reviewed then again in 2024 and then um that review being published, the anchor point for that AI framework is all around purposeful and deliberate use. Um and the increasing use of devices really is what has prompted the um us to be looking further into it. Um and it's not as I said before it's not an eitheror. It's about how do you make sure that the technology is supporting and enabling teaching learning and not replacing it.
Well, we've seen some um some of the private schools are are completely >> banning it completely. Um particularly the use of devices um and are getting you been able to see improve not just results but also just culture within the schools. I'm thinking of a particular school in Perth that's been well canvased. Um I'll move on because I've