Senate Education and Employment Legislation Committee [Part 2], , 1:13:36 to 1:19:46
Officials examine the legislative framework for mutual obligations and the consequences of work refusal. The committee discusses the restoration of payments and data collection during program pauses.
Topics: Social services, Employment, Government spending
Speakers: Senator Matt O'Sullivan, Fiona Dewar, Lisa Schofield, Unknown Speaker, Simon Duggan, Interjection
>> Thank you. I want to return back to the issue of uh the uh compliance framework. uh some of some of which has just been covered by Senate Payne. But um just thinking about the suspension uh I'd like to understand what happened to job seekers while those powers were
>> while section 1242 ag um so the >> yeah so essentially senator there were while these provisions were paused there were no decisions that were being that were being taken in relation to those two um There were other and and the secretary talked about about this um a little bit earlier as well. There are other mutual obligations requirements um that exist within um the legislative framework that remained in existence. While um while these two provisions were paused and while um the other four provisions are are still paused, there are some mutual obligations that are still in the system. So people could not be suspended for a work refusal failure because this provision was turned off. But suspensions were still active if there were failures on other mutual obligation requirements.
>> So the mutual obligations continued.
>> Yes.
>> But the the the payment suspension was lifted. >> Is that right? I got that up right.
>> Sorry, Senator. Um I might just so payment suspensions have been have remained in place through this period. Yes. While there were other provisions within the social security administration act that had been paused. >> Um for the large part suspensions occur under section 42 AF one. Um uh and um payment suspensions can occur whe um when a person has um not met their mutual obligations requirement and that might be attending an appointment, it might be um completing an activity. So um there are other uh um >> parts of the the system whereby a person um could find that their payment was suspended. What was paused particularly under section 42 a.m. was that um that suspension um if a person didn't reconnect um that that their their payment could not be cancelled.
>> Okay. So, did any any job seekers permanently uh has any job seeker permanently lost any payment for failing to meet a
>> Not while the um not while section 42 a.m. was turned was turned off. No.
>> Okay. Services Australia procedures say that during the pause uh and I think this sort of goes to what you're saying here is that the dur restores payment after 20 days whether the person has met their reconnection requirement or not uh what happens um what what happened to their payment is it is it held back
>> so when a suspension is lifted um it is it is back paid to the day at which it was suspended.
Not not not from when it's lifted.
>> Pardon?
>> Yeah. So, not not from when it's lifted. It's backed up.
>> No, exactly. It's back paid to the the point at which it's their their last payment should have been made.
>> Okay. Um so from from the 5th of July of 25 until Monday. So all TCF suspensions and cancellations for refusing suitable work were paused in that time. What was the consequence for a job seeker who refused a suitable
>> So during the time when that provision was paused, no decisions could be taken under that provision.
So a job seeker could just keep continuing to refuse a suitable job in that period of time maybe potentially multiple times.
>> It meant that a person's payment couldn't be paused or suspended or uh cancelled under that provision. There are other provisions under 42 AF one um whereby a person's payment can be suspended but using that particular
refusal of
>> mutual obligations
>> but that's those other requirements are not the those other um measures are not
>> it's not about the work
>> not about refusing a suitable job so if someone >> in that period of time from June sorry 5th July until just this Monday. >> More than 12 months. If someone repeatedly refused to take up a suitable job, nothing happened. There was no consequence
>> for that particular um event. That would be correct. Senator, >> but there were as as we've said, there were um there were a range of other mutual obligations that remained in place um whilst this particular provision was not in place. Was data
still collected on the job seekers in that way? Like if so if if the service provider would they have recorded in your on your system that the person had refused a job over that period of time?
>> So I'd have to take that on notice.
>> Can you take that on notice and then come back to me with uh the numbers of how many if there were any
>> if that was data that we have collected during the time. Yes, Sander, we can
come back to that. Would it have been data you would have been collecting before the suspension?
>> It would have been collected whilst the provision was operational. Um have to have a look and see how much data we have whilst the provision was paused.
>> I find that concerning if while it was paused that it would you'd actually stop
>> I think the evidence is we we need to
>> we'll just have to take on how much information we have. Senator,