Senate Education and Employment Legislation Committee [Part 2], , 1:43:31 to 1:55:36
Officials review the procurement timeline for Workforce Australia and the use of regional labor market data. The department describes the development of new triaging and assessment instruments for job seekers.
Topics: Employment, Procurement, Infrastructure
Speakers: Senator Jane Hume, Tania Rishniw, Matt Cowgill, Simon Duggan, Lisa Schofield, Senator Matt O'Sullivan, Senator Penny Allman-Payne
Thank Thank Senator Leger's questions about uh the um employment services reform. Uh at the last hearing you told us that advice on the detailed settings on the cost of the new system which I think you have covered off on and and but most importantly on how many people will be in each stream will go to the minister towards the end of this year or early next year. Just wondering where we are on that process now that we're at the end of October.
>> So Senator, um that still remains the case. So we're still working on um so the number of people per stream. So as you know the minister in giving her speech talked about three streams of of service depending on the participants distance from the labor market or their specific needs. Um the detailed design of the reforms. We're still putting together our advice to the minister and for the minister to provide to the cabinet. Those design choices will then determine how many people in which streams and that will be the basis on which we'll be able to prepare a costing.
>> Right. Okay. Uh in response to questions on notice in July, the department said that all workforce Australia contracts are being extended to the 31st of October uh next year, not this year. Um however I note that the department's annual procurement plan on O tender which is updated earlier this month uh doesn't list any tenders for the new system. So when will that go to market?
>> Um Senator the um the government has as you've said said that those contracts will be extended. Um we have provided that advice directly to all of the providers in the system. Um we've written to each of them to let them know that those um that those extensions are um are coming. Um we have some briefing that is happening inside the department and with the minister at the moment to sort of confirm some of the minor details about how those things will work and we'd expect to be in a position to have those um contracts extensions offered um and all resolved by the end of this calendar year.
>> By the end of this calendar year. Terrific. Thank you. That's very helpful.
>> And just just to clarify, Senator, I think you said that the contracts being extended through to 31 October next >> actually 31 October 2028.
>> Oh, I'm sorry. It is too It is late. 2028, not 2027. Um, all right. Uh, I want to ask just some clarity around how the department um is confident about knowing where job seekers live. So, which obviously will be part of the way that this new system is built. So am I am I right in saying that the department publishes small area labor markets unemployment estimates for sort of suburb sized areas. Is that what is that what the department does?
take that on I can feel someone coming up behind me. Senator
>> whenever you need a chief economist
Uh thank you Senator Matt Calgill, chief economist and first assistant secretary. Uh yes we do publish a publication called small area labor markets. Um it synthesizes it combines information from the ABS labor force survey together with administrative data from the department of social services um to estimate uh unemployment rates and other employment statistics at small geographical regions.
>> Right. Excellent. Okay. So uh your methodology says exactly that you take the ABS figure that you share it with uh you um you share it by the number of job seeker and youth allowance recipients in each area and you average it over four quarters. Is that right? Is that how it
>> Yes. So we calculate it for each region um and and then and then we average. Yes. And we do that for local government areas and I believe SA2 uh Australian statistical geography standard statistical area 2 areas. Senator
>> uh the the latest issue which was released earlier this month is for the June quarter. Is that what the department's going to use to decide where support for job seekers in the new intensive stream goes?
Um, Senator, it obviously it's it's too soon to say in terms of broader reform, but it will be one of the inputs that actually goes to where are the current job seekers, what are the labor markets, where there are thin labor markets, um, etc. based on the advice from the chief economist but also looking at um the the data that comes through from services Australia and looking at um we've talked about a new triaging and assessment process as well. So it will also look at um the level of of kind of complex needs and barriers. So there's geography but there's actually assessment of jobseker needs particularly around that intensity of support.
>> All right. So that assessment of job seeker needs where is the data that where do you get that data from?
>> So that usually comes through and and as I've um said we've been working around um and it was announced in budget an improved triaging and assessment process for job seekers. So at the moment we use the jobseker classification instrument um as a means of looking at um someone's history, someone's um complexity, the kind of barriers that they face um their history in terms of looking at income support and the type of services we provide. Now, um the assessment and triage process will look at how do we better elicit some of that information about um a person's circumstances, situation, other features that goes to their need, their distance from the labor market, and the kind of support that they will need.
>> So, obviously you're triaging already in the current system. How do you translate the current system of triaging to the new system?
>> So as I've described at the moment that assessment is done at initially through the jobseker classification instrument,
>> right?
>> Which which basically people fill in at the time they they seek income support. They go on jobseker. They fill in a jobseker classification instrument. Depending on your scoring of that depends on whether you would currently go into online services or provider services. Um and then there are different checks and balances in the system as you progress. So, for example, um if you can't meet your mutual obligations for 3 months in a row, the provider will do an assessment and a capability assessment at that point. And then at the kind of I if you've been unable to meet your mutual obligation requirements at the moment, Services Australia does a much more intensive assessment to see whether your mutual obligations are right for you, whether you're getting the right supports or not. So there's already those kind of ways of triaging and assessing someone. What we're looking at is a much more comprehensive way of looking at the jobseker classification instrument and enhancing that to better elicit some of those early indicators and test more broadly um where where people need support and their distance from the labor market.
Do you need I mean if you're staging out if there are sort of certain sort of gateways of this project is that triaging decision and the approach that you take to that something that needs to happen before you then establish where the new centers
need to be. So, one of the things that we're currently doing, we've actually um put out um one of the budget decisions actually looked at how do you build out that triaging assessment instrument and what does that look like? Um we've got some expert advice through Ernston Young actually doing some of that work around that triaging and assessment instrument and what that looks like in terms of testing it with job seekers where that places. that will obviously inform kind of how we build out that instrument and that will inform partly where you've got the current case load and how you actually look at stream three services. So that work is underway is what I'm
centers.
>> Yeah it will absolutely and it and it looks at distance from the labor market.
>> Yeah. So Senator, if I could just add, I mean, where this will become really relevant, you asked a question, will we rely on the June data to inform essentially the services that will be provided as a result of the reforms. This really matters when we get to the procurement process, which is not until midway through next year.
>> My next question was that so when you get to the procurement process, that will be so you said mid way through next year. >> Next year, >> right? Okay. Okay. Okay. And that that's
when so the latest data on all of these things. So that um you know Mr. Cowg talked about the processes that we go through for that data both the administrative data the ABS data. We'll get more data reads before that which will then inform the um procurement
So this year the department cut its exact monthly case load down to quarterly. Is um is the best local data that the public gets um so sorry the best local data that the public gets is modeled by your own guidance. Is that is it lagging? Is that is that is that what you're saying? Is it that that the June data is already lagging? So it's going to be inadequate for building out that model. Is that sorry am I have I missed something here?
Is that sorry I'm not describing myself
very well. It is getting late.
>> I I think I understand what you're saying Senator. >> Um so Mr. Cowg will be able to tell us whether or not there will be updates before we get to that procurement process by the middle of next year.
>> Yes. That uh Senator that um small area labor markets publication you were referring to is released quarterly. Yeah. Um so between now and the procurement process that Mr. Dugen has described there will be several several further uh updates publicly released to that publication.
>> Right.
>> Um one additional point I would note Senator is that the ABS is releasing um labor force information at a more uh detailed so more granular geographic level. Um it is planning very soon to start releasing at the statistical area 3 level which is more detailed than the SA4 level it releases currently. and it has announced plans to um explore going to the SA2 level which is what we um publish in small area later.
>> Still quarterly or monthly though.
>> Uh I believe that is monthly but I'll need to take that on notice to confirm. Um the the the ABS regional data I believe it is monthly but I'll I'll take on notice to confirm. Senator.
>> Okay. Uh the the the department knows where every work workforce Australia participant lives already. I'm wondering whether you will publish the case load each quarter by essay 2 but also perhaps
>> I I would not with regard to the small area labor markets publication that we release now we don't calculate that by electorate but we do provide the data to the parliamentary library and they calculate that um the the unemployment rates and so on by electorate. So that's something that the parliamentary library does using the data that we provide to them.
>> All right. Okay. Thank you for that. I uh I have some more questions, but they're on a different topic. I'm not entirely sure whether you want to let me just continue on.
>> Uh yeah, we're waiting for you to get to skills. Yeah.