Senate Education and Employment Legislation Committee [Part 2], , 2:29:23 to 2:39:54
Negotiations with states and territories regarding the Fee-Free TAFE skills agreement are examined. The committee discusses funding offers and the potential impact on student placements.
Topics: Education, Government spending, Employment
Speakers: Anna Faithfull, Senator Jacinta Nampijinpa Price, Senator Jess Walsh, Simon Duggan, Unknown Speaker, Senator Matt O'Sullivan, Senator Penny Allman-Payne, Speaker 15
Skills and Training, including uh Jobs and Skills Australia. Um the opposition
first.
Are you finishing up?
>> No.
>> Okay. I'm happy to jump in. Yep. Thank Uh, I've got a couple of questions on Feree TA. Uh, so sorry, let me just get it together. uh fee free TA just now I understand the fee free TA skills agreement which underpins fee free TA places for students across Australia is due to expire at the end of 2627. Um at the June budget estimates hearings this year the department assured this committee that you were on foot with negotiations so that everything is in place in time for the beginning of the 2027 academic year. We're now almost 5 months on from that hearing and the 2027 academic year is almost upon us. Am I correct in understanding that only New South Wales has signed a new agreement uh and even they only signed on Wednesday of last week? Thank you for the question, Senator. So, uh, the multilateral agreement, the, uh, federal financial agreement for free TA has been, uh, signed and that was, uh, kicked off with New South Wales. There are other jurisdictions that are
imminent. Um, and so, uh, but for all intents and purposes, because the multilateral agreement has been signed, the agreement is is underway and >> for New South Wales. Uh well for all for essentially for all states and territories because the multilateral is is the uh the main overarching
>> Okay. Um how many states and territories have expressed concern with the level of funding contained in the new free tape agreement?
>> So uh senator thank you for the question. So we are in we are in bilateral negotiations with uh states and territories. Uh the agreement was the purpose of the agreement and the purpose of the policy is about ensuring that free TA is enduring and sustainable and ongoing. Uh the objective was never around uh subsidizing the price of delivery in any given state or territory. It was about supporting students with the cost of uh engaging in vocational education and training. So, uh, the agreement is, uh, an $9, uh, $25 million contribution from the Commonwealth.
>> Uh, 911.
So, just for clarity, um, I did ask how many states and territories have expressed concern with the level of funding contained in the new agreement.
Uh so uh you know as I said negotiations are ongoing and I'm conscious of not uh you know I don't conscious that those negotiations are ongoing um there states and territories have raised a number of concern or number of issues in relation to those negotiations and uh some states and territories have raised uh the amount per place but as I said this would the the funding was never w about a per per place price subsidy. It was always about supporting students with the cost of participating in vet.
>> Okay. So, uh so they've all expressed perhaps the
this my observation of these negotiations has been consistent with almost every other Commonwealth state negotiation I've ever been involved in, which is the states will in the first instance test the Commonwealth and whether there's any more money that they can extract through the negotiation. This has been no different. Um, but we are working through that with the states and territories at the moment and as Miss Faithfull said, we're making good progress and very imminent in terms of being able to sign on more states and territories into bilateral arrangements.
>> Okay. So, more than 100,000 Australian students each year rely on these placements. Um, and we're in the middle of a skills crisis under the Albanese government. What is your contingency plan if these agreements remain unsigned by the majority of the states and territories
>> Uh thank you, Senator. I think we're we're confident uh around where where the negotiations are at uh with each of the states and territories. uh and uh we do have uh contingent fallback contingency plans, but I I'm really not in a position to be able to articulate those in any detail given we are currently in bilateral negotiations with some states and territories.
>> Okay. Um noting time constraints um and we're getting on the evening and the number of questions um I need to get to. If I could ask for various extinct responses to the next few questions, just even a simple yes or no would be fine. Um, can you confirm that the new free TA agreement offers the Northern Territory less Commonwealth funding per >> Uh, or is that determined by negotiation?
>> That's determined by negotiation.
>> So, there's no specific sort of offer. And would that be the same with regard to the initial offer was a reduction of $46 per place.
Uh so Senator what I would say is I'm not in a position to talk about the details of the negotiations given we're in active comate bilateral negotiations. Uh and as I said earlier uh this free TA agreement was never about a subsidy of the price per place given that the price and cost of TA differs in each of the different states and territories and differs per course. That amount has been allocated by population across the country. Uh it is indexed. Um but I'm not able to talk in detail about for instance Northern Territory given negotiations are on foot.
>> Can you so you can't confirm that the new um free tape agreement offers um the ICT less commonwealth funding per place?
>> So what I can say is that all states will receive more funding overall when compared to tranch 2 of the existing uh with which seeks to establish free TA on an ongoing basis.
Uh can you confirm that the new free tape agreement offers Western Australia less commonwealth funding per place than the previous agreement?
>> Uh so again uh I can confirm that all states will receive more funding overall when compared to tranch 2 of the existing program.
>> Can you confirm that the new free tape agreement offers Queensland less common funding per place than the previous agreement?
>> So I'd refer to my previous answer. All states will receive more compared to
>> Um and with regard to South Australia, will they receive less commonalth funding per place?
>> Uh again,
>> and Tasmania,
>> uh compared to Trunch 2, so remembering there there's trunch one, tranch 2, compared to trunch 2, they will receive more. Um but negotiations are on foot. So I can't uh talk to the detail and this is about supporting the students the cost for the student.
>> Okay. The the states and ter territories are probably going to disagree with your assessment of the importance of um per place funding. I imagine um on the 3rd of November 2024 the prime minister stated we promised fee free TA for Australians and now it is here to stay. How can the Labour Albanesei government claim um credit for delivering permanent free TA when you are making the states and territories pay the vast majority of
Uh so Senator, what I would I guess I would dispute the premise of the question with all respect because uh it it was as I said it was never about a price subsidy. was about supporting the student uh and and making free TA enduring so that each state and territory has certainty over the five years that there'll be a 100,000 places
I suppose this one's for the minister. Um, how can Australians trust that free TA is actually going to be permanently delivered when you're putting it at risk? Um, I guess in this game of chicken with the states and territories just just to save a few dollars off the bottom budget line to help your colleagues and I suppose the embattled
Uh, well, Senator, the main risk to fee free TA would be a coalition government. uh because you voted against making free TA permanent. Uh and under our government, we've delivered over 850,000 free TA places. >> Uh and free t can changing is changing people's lives uh in this country. Um I noticed uh Senator in your opening question um you referred to uh cost of living issues uh and free TA gives people um a great opportunity to train uh and retrain uh and it is also uh a really important important part of um our government's agenda on cost of living uh as well. Uh the main risk to fee free TA is the coalition. Well, we
aren't offering the states and territories less funding per place for students. That's what the government's doing.
>> The department senator has given evidence that every state and territory is being offered um more funding than in trench 2. Uh and that is the department's evidence