Senate Education and Employment Legislation Committee [Part 2], , 2:43:00 to 2:53:58
Officials discuss data collection limitations regarding student citizenship and residency status in TAFE programs. The department also addresses tracking employment outcomes and VET data definitions.
Topics: Education, Employment, Procurement
Speakers: Anna Faithfull, Senator Jacinta Nampijinpa Price, Speaker 15, Senator Matt O'Sullivan, Speaker 16, Senator Penny Allman-Payne
>> Thank you. Um at the last estimates hearing um my colleague sitting next to me here asked some questions about fee free TA placements for students on temporary visas and similar. Um your advice was that fee free TA data by citizenship status is not shared with the commonwealth as part of state and territory reporting agreements. Why is this data not shared with the
uh senators. So, uh tranches one to three were originally set up as a short, you know, a timebound uh program. Uh we put in place uh performance monitoring and reporting uh commensurate with uh free uh federal financial agreements that are for timebound programs uh in terms of between the commonwealth and state and territories. So uh we've uh in terms of the reporting that we've received from states and territories in relation to tranch one two and three that has been regularly reported on our website uh as we've probably previously talked about in this forum. uh the enduring free TA will have we we will be able to uh tag it in NCVR data sets and we'll have a different we've got a different performance um regime that's incorporated in this enduring uh FFA agreement. Uh but uh so to to sort of specifically answer your question, that level of data was not something that neither the Commonwealth nor states and territories in the negotiations uh envisaged collecting given the nature the short-term nature of the program for tranches one to three.
But surely given $1.5 billion dollars that the federal government has poured into fee free tape any data this sort of data would be sought after I suppose. So states didn't actually capture this data. Is that correct?
>> Uh data into the citizenship status of the So so states have uh the ability to uh uh design the courses that they would like to add to the course list for free TA and the students. And then we have we have put various specifications um across the three tranches. uh citizenship status hasn't been a key uh requirement that
>> so the government hasn't sought this data
>> so uh senator thank Laura Angus first assistant secretary um the eligibility requirements are set by the states and territories not by the commonwealth so in fact it's determined by the state so each jurisdiction um can apply the eligibility that most suits their circumstances
>> and if I could add to that all jurisdictions require ire applicants to meet residency requirements and do not place restriction on applications who've previously enrolled or completed a free tape course in another jurisdiction.
So basically any data captured by the states and territories regarding free free tape is just with regard to residency as opposed to citizenship.
Well, that would be determined by the state themselves, Senator,
>> but it's not something that the Commonwealth government has sought after or asked the states. There's they haven't I mean, there's negotiations that obviously take place. >> Sure. As part of the agreement,
>> sorry, as part of the agreements about the eligibility that was determined that states and territories would have control over that themselves and and they have um and that was part of the agreement.
>> So, the government hasn't asked for that specifically at all at any stage. We no >> Okay. Um have has the residency data been provided to the government?
>> We we take that on notice and check that
>> Okay. Um if I can take you back to the department's appearance before this committee at the most recent budget estimates where the department revealed that at this point in time with the data that you collect in relation to the fee free TA program uh you are not able to track the pathway into work. Is that the case? Um you currently have no way of knowing whether a fee free TA participant is gainfully employed at the end of their course.
Uh so senator we uh the requirements that we imposed in the agreement was around uh priority courses, priority cohorts, uh enrollments and completions. Uh so we are tracking and have reporting on all of those factors. Um because we don't track the data at an individual student level, we're not able then to track uh that pathway into employment. uh with enduring free TA we will have that that flag that free TA flag on the data that then is provided to the national data custodian NCver uh and uh it is then possible for NCVER and I think I might have mentioned this last estimates with say for instance Job jobs and skills Australia our colleagues do a set of analysis with ATO and look at employment and income outcomes comes from students in vet. So we could we could envisage based on that practice already that that we will be able to look at uh the employment and income outcomes for free TA students.
>> Um so previously you've never had a way of knowing whether a fee free TA participant is employed in the industry they actually studied in
>> is we don't because we don't track the data at an individual student level. No, we don't have that insight.
>> Okay. Okay. So you don't you have no way of knowing if for example a certificate three in brick laying and block laying student has actually ended up working as a bricky or on a construction site. So
we know for in so if we so what we do know is that for instance um if we look at total vet activity uh I will uh something sorry about 83% of our students uh achieve the purpose that they were and I'll get the right data for you senator but very high percentage of students achieve the purpose for which they intended with their study and they end up in employment as a result of their study. Uh so we can uh use that as a proxy to determine that uh we you know our hypothesis is that uh free tape students based on that broader vet population cohort are going to be able to get the outcomes that they need from their study both in terms of employment income uplift uh and particular additional skills that they might need in their workplace. Um as I said at this point in time with tranch one to three we don't have that data at that individual student level but we will have that data ongoing from 1 January 2027.
>> Okay. So why wasn't employment outcome data for free free t collected at the start? Did the government not ask for
uh it it's the the inherent challenge of not uh capturing it at that student level and given the nature of the program and and the original intent to be a short-term program there was an agreement between the Commonwealth and states and territories that to uh collect individual student data would be too ownorous in the context of the overall program.
Okay, Senator, just to let you know, I would normally have rotated you by now. Senator Deleg has seated his question, so we're just with the opposition. So, I just want to clarify if you're seeking to rotate amongst yourselves. Um, you want to ask,
>> I'll I got one more um bit and then I'll Okay. Um so at the most recent budget estimates it became clear that there isn't a consistent or set definition for what constitutes withdrawal in national vet data collection but inver um was working on a definition. Has a definition been chosen yet?
Uh senator uh great question. I know that our colleagues are here later on this evening. um may be able to talk in more detail, but I'd otherwise I'd have to take that on notice and and check where they're at with that process.
>> Thank you. I just want to follow up on a a Quan, but before I do, uh I'll give you the number so you can look it up Oh, sorry, I don't have a number. that's not going to help. Um, just in relation to the negotiations with the states, uh, I've previously asked about retention data and and employment outcomes in particular. Um, are any of those metrics part of your negotiations and including them? I know you were talking the earlier discussion about limitation because of the length of time with each of the existing tranches. M >> is that going to be resolved going
>> Uh so in terms of the employment data uh because we'll be able to flag uh free TA enrollments in in the NCVA data we will be able to be in a better position to look at that pathway into employment. The multilateral agreement does uh it h it has some more rigorous requirements. So I might ask uh Miss Stip just to give you an overview of some of those requirements.
So um as we've already advised in December of 2025 the skills ministers agreed that um under the ongoing program um the states and territories would report subject level data to NCBA and that will enable it to become part of the um Australian vocational and training management information statistical standard and be part of being able to compare free TA with a broader vet cohort um and that will give us more detail. Um furthermore, the new agreement um also provides um for the states and territories to provide annual insight reports um providing annual quality data on program effectiveness, administration and delivery and then uh like the current agreement at the end of the ongoing agreement there'll be a
including completions of courses is that
>> that's part of the MCVA data set. Yes.