Senate Economics Legislation Committee, , 8:51:47 to 8:55:51
Officials explain the lack of industry-specific breakdowns for revenue raised from trust tax changes.
Topics: Infrastructure, Agricultural productivity
Speakers: Senator Jacinta Nampijinpa Price, Dr Shane Johnson, Katrina Di Marco, Hon Tim Ayres, Senator Lisa Darmanin
We don't have a breakdown on the two to the um to how much is coming from small business?
Okay, so how much is from the construction sector and how much is from farms?
We don't do industry breakdowns again.
So you don't do industry breakdowns.
So Senator, just to add, we don't do industry breakdowns and primary production is excluded from the operation of these the new minimum tax.
So the government weren't interested in those breakdowns?
Senator, it's not it's just not how you go about costing these kinds of policies.
Why not?
Senator, you do these things based on and Dr. Johnson can talk about how we've costed them, but you do these things based on aggregates, not on industry by industries.
How are carvouts determined then?
So when we look at a particular carve out, we do have we can get information uh from the tax office on um uh particular types of classes, or we end up making assumptions around uh around particular particular cars, depending on what's available.
So you did you spoke to um small business, small businesses being impacted? You you should have how much those businesses you have estimated will pay.
Senator, it's just I'll let Dr. Johnson take this question further. But it's just important to remember not all discretionary trusts are businesses. You've got discretionary trusts that are businesses and discretionary trusts that are not in business. And the policy is costed based on all of those trusts, not just trusts that are in business. But I'll hand over to Dr. Johnson if there's anything wants to add to that.
So, okay. It's just all very vague and confusing, and I don't know how these decisions are made effectively. Um we just want to know basically how much of the the billions in taxes will be paid by small businesses, and it's it's quite shocking, really, the Treasury doesn't understand what that means. Doesn't know that, wasn't asked to factor that in or understand what that might mean.
Well, that wasn't the uh evidence that the officials gave the answered your questions, uh Senator Um Is the government interested in that?
Is the government interested in that, or is small business just an afterthought?
I um this is uh tax reform that is uh narrow in scope but it's important.
So can this be taken on notice perhaps for the inquiry next week?
There has been uh a consistent uh approach across generations. Um right back to uh the very least in 1975.
Okay, I don't need a history lesson. Will this be taken on notice, perhaps? Can this be taken taken on notice?
What would what be taken on notice, Senator?
Understanding what these figures are.
I think it's hard to um formulate that.
I'm asking the officials, I suppose that's that's what can this be taken on notice?
Yeah, we can you can take it on notice, Senator.
Um perhaps at the inquiry next week.
You're um 10 minutes, Senator Namajima Price. I'm gonna have to rotate the call. Are you almost okay?
Just want to be clear though that this wasn't asked of you to understand by the government. This what this wasn't tasked to you by the government.
So we have a look at um we don't go through and calculate uh by particular sector. Um we do have a look at um uh tax that's paid by different size of trusts, and so but again that doesn't break down to business, but we do certainly have a look at different size of trust. And I think some of that information uh is included in the impact assessment as well. And so I'll try and get you that.
Thank you. Senator McDonald.