Senate Economics Legislation Committee [Part 2], , 1:23:31 to 1:29:51
Senator Pocock questions the ATO Commissioner regarding a complaint letter from the former TPB CEO concerning the PWC tax leaks investigation.
Topics: Integrity, Whistleblower protections, Public service staffing
Speakers: Rob Heferen, Senator Barbara Pocock, Unknown Speaker, Speaker 4, Senator Andrew Bragg
>> Thank you, Chair. I want to go to a complaint letter lodged by Mr. Michael O'Neal, a former CEO of the tax practitioners board during the investigation of PWC in relation to that tax leaks scandal. The complaints letter was lodged with the ATO on the 1st of September 2025. You're not in commissioner. You have memory of it
>> Uh I do.
>> Yes. And uh you also Mr. de Cure, you're familiar with the document.
>> I first became aware of it yesterday.
>> Okay. I've got copies if you want to have one in front of you. I'm not seeking to table it, but just if it's useful for you to have it in front of perhaps just to the commissioner and Mr. Cure at this point. Um, I'd like to um ask some questions about this matter. Mr. O'Neil makes five allegations in his uh complaint. The first of them relates to the action of some APS officers and officials and raises significant concerns about the adherence of the of those officers to the APS code of conduct. And then there are four other issues. The independence of the TPB and its operation in relation to the PWC matter, the TPB's investigations in relation to PWC and Peter John Collins. Thirdly, evidence provided at parliamentary hearings and responses to questions on notice. And fourthly, the ongoing bullying, harassment, and threats against him uh as he exercised his powers as the TPB's CEO and secretary. Um Mr. Heferen, this was a document that went to the ATO on the 1st of September. Can you outline the processes undertaken by you when you received it? >> and I'm not asking you to name individuals, just a sense of the shape of what you did.
>> Yeah. So um uh when that was provided to me um given the nature of the allegations raised by Mr. O'Neil um and given they um well given the nature of the allegations I thought it prudent to ensure that it was appropriately investigated by someone external to the ATO. So I referred it to the public service commissioner um at that time of the previous public service commissioner and asked the public service commissioner to um as I referred my powers as an agency head to deal with this to the public service commissioner. Um the public service commissioner then uh the uh the ombbudsman to conduct the review uh conduct the examination of the
>> sorry I didn't catch that.
>> That has been completed
>> has been completed
>> been completed. Um so I have uh I have been told the outcome of the ombbudsman's um uh of the ombbudsman's review. I've been told by the public service commissioner sorry by public service um I've got some guidance about uh handling uh the information uh says the contents of the document which been provided that is the complaint and the outcome are strictly confidential sensitive and contain personal information about individuals that is protected by the public service act and the privacy act. Both acts impose strict limitations on the disclosure of the protected information provided. You should not undisclose the document or the information contained in it without first seeking approval from the commissioner and authorized And then public commentary on the matter says the documents and any of the information contained therein must not be disclosed publicly. Release of information concerning the exercise of the commission that is the public service commission's functions under sections 412M, 412N, and 412P of the public service act. and information referred into in the documents may risk the integrity of future processes related to these functions. In particular, such disclosure may send the message to the public and the whole com public sector that conducts processes could be made public and this could undermine the effectiveness of the hundreds of investigations that occur every year and potentially jeopardize workplace integrity conditions and performance. I mean given that um advice guidance to me I'm afraid senator I I am concerned if I step into a discussion of any of the matters given that I've been given an explicit instruction not to publicly disclose uh that I could then be operating in breach of the code uh in that I'm failing to protect confidential
information. uh commissioner I want to go let me go to one of the five matters which is a uh employee uh allegation that they have been bullied harassed and had threats placed against them. That's something which uh you are the officer in charge of the employment of that person and they have come with a complaint about bullying and harassment. uh what did you do in relation to that element of the complaint >> which is not an unusual uh or an infrequent incur occurrence for an exchange between employee and their employer
>> the the entire complaint I referred to the public service commissioner >> so I didn't I didn't go through the complaint and say some I can deal with some others I felt it was important given that um and I am conscious that I'm you know entering into and I'm conscious of my obligations s to keep this information confidential and not disclose it publicly. But I was satisfied that taking the taking the uh complaint as a whole, it should be dealt with as a whole. And so the entire matter was referred to the public service commissioner who then as the ombsman to do the investigation being complete and I've received um I've received the outcome of that. Uh that
to go to an element of the uh document in front of and you can see that I have Mr. O'Neil's permission uh to publicly uh discuss the document. One of his allegations about false and misleading information.