Senate Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Legislation Committee, , 2:22:10 to 2:40:57
Internal review of the department's communication failures and procedural breakdowns during the Laos consular crisis.
Topics: DFAT, Public safety
Speakers: Hon Penny Wong, Hon Michaelia Cash, Jan Adams AO PSM, Elizabeth McGregor, Michelle Chan, Raff Ciccone
>> thank you very much, Chair. Uh, I'll just briefly finish up on the line of questioning uh, that I was pursuing earlier this morning in relation to uh, the deaths of Holly and Biana. Secretary, can I just um ask you? I I hope you can confirm this. Um since the 29th of January, um have Holly and Bianca's parents been given one point of contact in the department that they can literally just pick up the phone to to
Um, Senator Elizabeth McGregor, first assistant secretary, consular and crisis management division. Um, in all my communications with the families um, in January and February, I've expressed my willingness to talk to them any time to explain what is going on and to try and help them to the best of the department's ability.
>> Okay. Thank you for that. And just again very briefly um in terms of the media reporting secretary um is def aware of the reports that no further charges are expected against hotel staff.
>> Uh I have seen the reports Senator.
>> Yeah. No. So my next question then is okay. So you've seen the reports. Um how are you verifying this or testing the veracity of that information?
U Michelle Chan, Deputy Secretary of South and Southeast Asia Group. Um Senator, as I said, our embassy and us here in uh in CRA with in terms of the uh ambassador Lao Ambassador are in very regular touch with the Lao authorities um on the status of the investigation and the case. Um and as I mentioned earlier, we're advised earlier this week uh that the uh by the LA authorities that the case is still under legal process and has not been completed.
>> Thank Thank you, Miss Chan. Um and just in terms of you did mention the hostel previously earlier this morning uh that you had had someone there uh to see that it was um was it still closed? I think you said there are reports that the hostel has reopened under a different name. Can you confirm the status of the
>> Um, Senator, so the late Oh, sorry.
so on the 6th of February, we had um officials from our embassy travel to Vang and they confirmed that there is no hostel currently operating on that site. Uh but of course we can't uh rule out what might happen in the future and it does appear that preparations are underway to o reopen something uh perhaps a hostel at the site.
>> Okay. And in the event that a host does what's the process to ensure that Australians are absolutely aware of risks that they may face?
>> So can I um say a couple of things? Um I've um I think said publicly last year that we don't believe the host the hostel should reopen. >> uh but your question is an important one and one we have spent um some time working on. One of the things in my engagement with um uh the Jones and BS family uh that we have discussed was how we can work to ensure this does not happen to another young Australian. Uh and to at that end uh we have worked uh with um um others uh to uh um actually might be better to Miss Reggera to talk about the drink wise campaign and the additional travel advice warnings or the travel uh messages that we launched towards the end of last year. Uh, and I want to again uh express my appreciation uh to uh the parents for their involvement in that launch um uh at Melbourne airport uh uh and for their involvement in the advertising campaign. But perhaps Miss Mcgria can go through.
Um, Senator, our travel advice advises about the risks of methanol poisoning. Um, including that several foreign nationals, including Australians, were victims of methanol poisoning through consuming alcoholic drinks. Um, travelers are urged uh in our advice to be alert to potential risks around drink spiking as well. Um, since the incident in November 2024 at Nana's Backpackers, um, we've updated the Lao Travel advice to ensure it remains current and up to-date, um, including on methanol poisoning risk. Um, the message has also been amplified via smart traveler social media. Um in March last year, the foreign minister announced a strengthening of our efforts uh to increase awareness of alcohol related risks of overseas travel amongst young Australians. Um the government is providing targeted advice and alerts on alcohol related risks to travelers through text messages and messaging at Australia's international airports. Um and on the 10th of September last year, the foreign minister launched a new online safety hub that provides practical information for parents, universities, and schools on alcohol safety, methanol poisoning, drink spiking, drug safety, and travel insurance. Um the minister mentioned the Drinkwise campaign. Um, on the 18th of November last year, the government in partnership with Drinkwise and the families of Holly and Biana launched an alcohol safety campaign uh to support Australians traveling overseas for schoolies. Um, this included educational videos made available to schools across Australia, digital advertising on social media, and promotional activities at airports. We're also collaborating with youth media uh with industry and non-government organizations to ensure that message uh reaches young people throughout the summer travel period.
>> Thank you.
>> Can I could I just perhaps summarize it? One, we've launched the partying safety safety safely hub which is about raising the awareness of alcohol related risks of overseas travel amongst young people. and uh I think in the first 48 hours after it was launched, it was viewed some 5,000 times. So that is a good thing. Second, all 179 of our destination specific travel advisories contain advice on methanol poisoning and drink spiking. Third, uh and obviously schoolies is a is a high-risisk time. Ahead of that, Smart Traveler released a set of schoolies cheat sheets both on the hub for young people going to Bali, to Fiji, to Thailand, Vanuatu with useful travel advice and tips on avoid avoiding poison drinks. Fourth, we partnered with drink wise to release new resources for parents, students, and education educators uh for young people, including videos uh and other other um materials. Um uh and that that is the launch that I was very grateful that the families of Bianca and Holly um um were were there for the launch of that partnership ahead of schoolies. And fifth, we are working with um youth travel providers to try and ensure that they incorporate the smart traveler messaging including partying safely in their communications.
>> Uh thank thank you, Minister. Um just very briefly, Miss McGregor, you're the point of contact now. Prior to the 29th of January, did they have a point of contact that they could call the parents?
>> So, prior to the 29th of January, I was in touch with them and had offered the same um availability to talk through any concerns they had.
>> Uh Minister, um I've seen the announcement today in terms of a transparent investigation. Um what is that going to entail? And when you say transparent uh will the results of the investigation be made public etc given the unfortunate breakdown in communication
>> sorry um this so you appointing the talking about the special envoy m sorry some uh I think 89 representations at officials level on this matter and I have met uh spoken to the my counterpart um uh as well as the ambassador uh on the on in relation to this case. It did was clear to me um after the 29th of January court outcome that you know that did underscore the unacceptable delays in this injustice. Uh uh so I uh uh discussed um the with the department appointing a special envoy to travel to Lao to press for progress in the case. Uh u Mr. Kang who uh has previously been an ambassador in Southeast Asia. U so he's a regionally experienced officer and also worked in the prime minister's office. Um I asked him to to do this. Uh obviously he will progress in the investigation. I I I just it's not his investigation obviously. He's there to try and uh press a system which is a very different legal system to Australia's on progress in relation to these matters. We've consistently made clear whether it's myself, the deputy prime minister or the prime minister uh we our expectation that charges should reflect the seriousness of the tragedy uh that killed Holly and Bianca and four other
>> Uh thank you for that. Um, I'm just having a quick look at a media article online. Uh, the department is quoted as saying, "The department prides itself in its commitment to consular services and to ensuring that the interests of consular clients and their families are paramount. On this occasion, we fell short um of our aspiration. Australian officials continue to underscore expectations of a thorough and transparent investigation and that there is justice for Holly and Biana. Is that thorough and transparent investigation the same as your announcement of the appointment of the special envoy or are they two separate things?
>> The thorough well first I think actually you're quoting from the the um statement and what the correct what the secretary said today. Our expectation is of a thorough investigation. Mr. Kang is going to
>> Uh yes, sorry. Uh and in relation to the breakdown that occurred on the 29th
sorry, January, I misunderstood. I think
and this I think there has been some confusion.
>> Sorry. I thought you were [clears throat] talking about what we were seeking to do and allow Yes. to try and press continue to advocate for justice for um
>> Absolutely. And that is what the special envoy will be doing in relation to the breakdown of the communication that has caused obviously um the heartbreak to is there an investigation into that? Uh,
Senator, I have um asked for an internal investigation uh into well investigation uh into the communic review is the word uh review into the communications uh that
>> okay and who's going to undertake that
investigation? Uh it will be it the review will be uh undertaken by a person qualified on uh communications uh and public engagement issues.
>> So is that someone from within the DEFAT or are you going to bring in someone from outside?
>> Uh um I haven't completely settled that.
>> Okay. another department perhaps.
>> Well, I think I I'll need to look at u just an appropriate lens.
>> So, that'd be independent of the department, I assume. So, they can bring a completely different lens.
>> I I will be looking for a a qualified person to review, someone who's very familiar with our consular how the consular case load and consular um system works. So, you know, DEFAT does run that system. Uh, we have a lot of experienced people in that regard who could who could who haven't been involved in this actual uh particular case who who can look. So, I think it can.
>> So, would it be a specialist in LA? What what type of qualifications and and um
public engagement?
>> Communications and public engagement. Um given obviously the distress this caused from the family that that has been acknowledged by both yourself and the minister um and has unfortunately you know many Australians have obviously read this and share that same distress. Um can I ask why you have not yet commenced the internal investigation?
Uh well I have I have commenced it in that I've said we need to to uh undertake a review. As I said earlier it's uh it it was really uh a well-intentioned wrong judgment call. So [snorts] we need to ensure ourselves that could that judgment that we've got enough processes to test judgments that are made like that in in our internal system. Sometimes uh case officers uh you know have a very uh sort of ongoing relation relationship with the with the cases that they manage. But um maybe sometimes we need to make sure that the judgments that are being brought to bear are tested more fully. So uh that's what I've already decided to do. Uh yesterday, was it just yesterday that we spoke to the Lao ambassador? Was it the day before? um my initial uh as as well as uh the communic my own communication with the family. My uh next priority was uh direct discussion with the Lao ambassador uh about the distress that uh was being caused by I guess a feeling from our side as well as from the family side that we didn't always have the most timely and uh specific updates. and that despite that we have been asking for that all along. Uh I I emphasized to him that we would be stepping up our even further our expectations uh from the LA system to to work closely with us on this given the significance and the importance. >> So that was another uh immediate action from my point of
view. Um, when do you expect to formally appoint the person to undertake the investigation? [clears throat]
>> Uh, well, I don't it won't be a a a kind of formal appointment in in in a kind of capital A sense, but we will um organize a review as soon as we can.
>> With all due respect, organize a review as soon as we can. I actually have to say I don't think actually um goes with the urgency of this situation and the
district. >> I'm in estimates today uh so as soon as I get out um I can get on with my other
January and you have publicly issued an AP when the breakdown occurred minister >> and I find your answer quite flippant that you just gave me. merely announcing something does not mean the commencement
of a process. Sen senator um we became aware of this on Monday of this week. Uh and obviously the first priority has been to engage with uh the families to consider an immediate response as well to the verd you know the the what the ver the the the US case indicated to us which is obviously Mr. Kang's appointment uh and to make further representations. Um I know uh Miss Adams will and the department will address this uh expeditiously but I would just make the point we we have only be this was only clear on Monday of this week.
>> So Minister in that regard and thank you for that. Uh in terms of expeditiously what are your expectations?
>> Uh Senator I expect to do that this week.
>> This week? Okay. And in terms of the investigation or the review, whichever you'd like to call it, how long would something like this normally take?
>> I think
>> I don't think it should take too long.
>> Okay. Uh so the next estimates we would be able to pursue the review just to ensure that everything was undertaken.
>> I think that's quite reasonable.
>> Okay. Uh I've actually now finished my line of questioning in relation to this chair.
>> Okay. Well, that's good because on that note, I think we are now going to break for lunch. uh acknowledging we have the closing the gap statement at 12:00. So, we'll break for lunch. We'll see everyone back here in 1 hour.