Senate Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Legislation Committee, , 2:57:34 to 3:10:24
Witnesses argue that DFAT must shift aid delivery away from central government channels toward non-state actors and cross-border networks. They warn of the military's adoption of Russian-style ideology and the resulting geopolitical implications for the region.
Topics: Human rights, Pacific relations
Speakers: Dr Morten Pedersen, Sophia Htwe, David Shoebridge, Min Zin, Jessica Collins, Dr Nicholas Cheesman, Hon Sarah Henderson
>> um, thank you all for your work and your submissions. Um, to to the Myanmar research center and then I might ask Mr. Zin to comment briefly. your recommendation too which is about providing that more granular support looking for local initiatives um particularly in the parts of Myanmar that are not Junda controlled would require a very different mindset from DEFAT who traditionally like to deal with large multinational aid organiz multilateral aid organizations and a much more bureaucratic level how do you think in reality that can be implemented by DEFAT I want to be clear I support it but seems to me it would require some changes for how DEFAT partners in aid.
>> Would you like to take that one?
>> Well, I mean I I think what what DEFAD and and most aid agencies frankly traditionally do is they work through central governments, right? Um and yes, Steve had has a long tradition of working closely with with the UN and other multilateral donors. Uh but those uh agencies or at least some of those agencies are actually engaging more innovatively these days uh along the lines of what you were talking about engaging with non-state groups rather than just through the central government. The UNP, for example, as far as I know, work quite closely now with some of these emerging non-state authorities. So, ethnic armed groups that are now in control of border areas and are establishing governments. So, the UN is beginning to engage in that in that space. So, we can actually engage with those actors through UN agencies if that is our preference. Uh the main shift in thinking that I think is required is from this sort of traditional idea that we work through central governments. >> Uh in Myanmar at the moment uh that is for most purposes just not an effective uh way to engage. We need to increasingly be looking at these areas of control outside of military control. Uh and what how we can work with those emerging authorities to promote all of the things we want to promote democracy, human rights, humanitarian aid. These non-state authorities are are critical uh for a medium-term to long-term strategy to promote all of those values.
M. >> Thank you, Mr. Cool.
>> No, no, Mr. Zin, >> Australia delivering aid to those non-state actors, those part of the those those collection of groups resisting the Juna is do you support that where the focus of Australian aid
>> Yes, I do.
>> Yeah. Could I ask about some very practical things Australia could do is provide substantially increased resources and aid to Cox's Bazaar and and also you know border refugee camps in Thailand um as well as opening up additional placements for um refugees and then providing that resource for the diaspora and some of the the leadership as well to resist what's happening. in Myanmar. Mr. Zin, I know you spoke about that briefly in your opening, but you know, how important is that kind of support
And it's very critical. Uh I think it's very indispensable because uh now as you know, the United States and other western countries are withdrawing from Myamar at Australia becoming the largest donor. So it's a very crucial for the Rohinda refugee as well as refugee along the border. And at the same time I want to remind there are more than 3.5 millions internally displaced people in my I think there's a lot of modality that we can use crossborder and also humanitarian crime nexus. So I mean a lot of modality we can use to provide assistance to these people at the same time uh the that that that would be the uh a way for the even future political settlement because like Azan also interested in the humanitarian humanitarian corridor. So I think this is something that Australia can work with the AEN as well as Bangladesh government to figure out how that kind of humanitarian assistance can be >> good in itself but also play a significant role for the political
problem solution. the Myanmar research
>> something. Yeah. [laughter] Um thank you for the question senator. Actually I wanted to highlight on top of what sensing already said I think uh I think cross border is really important and then when we think about like sensing said 3.5 million BB are internally displayed in my need to think about it how to have for a in the rockhai state and many Rohijena are also inside the rock state are still internally displaced and also everyday violence because of the conflict between Araka army and also the uh uh state um state administ. So I think that what Australia um should be doing is of course like you know engaging with the Bangladesh and also India crossber aid and assisting these uh refugee on the on the side of the Bangladesh as well as like crossber aid inside the Rakhine state and not only the Rohhingers but also other minority group inside the Rakhine state and you know last week I talked to the some of the people who are inside the Rohine state. What happening is that many people are actually starving and there are a lot of property is happening inside the rock state because of the recent uh tension between Arakan army and Bangladesh authority around the Bora areas and because of this the Bangladesh authority blocking the a trading between the Arakan state and the Bangladesh. So think we all know this thing like could the you know because of the Araka army gullian territory in 14 ti out of the 17 the military central government is blocking the trading the central government and central areas and uh the Rakhai state. So Rakhai state is relying on the trading neighboring countries like Bangladesh and India. Now Bangladesh is blocking the trading and so Rakhai state is purely relying on the India. So I what Australians should do it maybe engage with the like Bangladesh authority and opening up the trade because of you know inside the rock state many people are suffering and starving and that were likely to increase because of the conflict intensity and so Australia should really do the also I think one point to add is also the educational support in within the you know ethnic territory control areas and also in Rockhai state many BA do not have education asset that include Rohingers and on top of the internally display. So Australia could do a lot of things supporting education and support working with the legacy bas society organizations and community organizations and even if that we do not engage with the Arai or other stakeholders but we could do a lot of different things and engage with the and support the education and humanitarian
a very comprehensive answer but if if on notice um uh any of the witnesses wanted to add some sort of additional detail about what Australia could be doing particularly um in terms of supporting Cox's Bazaar um and the the 1 million um refugees there given what's happened with the withdrawal of US aid, the withdrawal of education programs. It's just we haven't got a lot of time. if you would like to add anything to that and and don't don't feel limited to Cox's bazaar also displaced persons and
that on notice and I should also note that Sophia T is here partly because she's actually prepared a policy briefing paper for DEFAT that goes to these issues and we could table it. I
believe >> if you could if you've got it here table it but otherwise if you could provide it on notice if you have it here.
>> it will partly address your question. We can also speak afterwards and see what else we can provide.
>> Uh thank you very much Senator Schubid. Uh just briefly to Senator Collins.
>> Oh, thank you. Uh just a quick question on uh you're talking about uh the international coordination with countries like Malaysia that have been supportive. I was just wondering if you can give some commentary on uh the conflict and how other international um governments or other countries may be negatively impacting on this war. Please.
>> Thank you. I think that's one again for
>> Look, I think uh uh if I can sort of talk around that question a little bit. We've talked a lot about Azen uh this morning. Naturally perhaps we tend to look to AEAN as the key actor in the region. I think actually it's really important that we look beyond AEAN and focus more so on the immediate neighbors. So I'm talking about Thailand, China, India and and Bangladesh. And that goes to your question, right? These uh these four countries are in a better position than anyone else to directly impact both the direction the prosecution of the war and uh also the the broader livelihoods, the welfare of the people inside Myanmar. So they those four countries are are really key to the future of Myanmar. China of course has shown us over the last year or two just how much at least a great power can do. Uh but I think the other three neighbors also have significant potential uh to do both good and bad things in this space. And if I can leave you with just one thought, then perhaps Australia should work not just with Azan but with each of these countries or perhaps all of them together in a group uh to try to come up with a coherent regional uh response that takes advantage of the fact that these four countries are as I said neighboring countries with direct and intensive contacts with all of these non-state authorities that are now emerging. ing and I in control of the border areas and the borders. Uh to my mind, this is really where the key to the to to Myanmar's future lies with with these four neighbors and and therefore we should be looking to ways in which we can work with them perhaps notch them in certain directions sometimes at other times support them to do things that they are trying to do whether that's financially or or so on.
>> Mr. in did you have anything to add to
>> I I agree with the d modern Peterson view but I think I want to add one thing about Russia. I think that it's in a negative uh effect that the Russia and Barus all these autocracy is a huge influence on Yema not only in terms of military and other supplines but also I think that military is using Chinese hardware but operating with the Russian software basically Russian ideology of hatred against minority because the in past four five years the the Bama military military has deeply humiliated so they felt that you the minorities took advantage of you know the the the the weakening BMA majority that's why they have more this time more racial like defensive militarist nationalist attitude toward the minority people so you can see a lot of revenge and intense hatred against the minority so I think we are getting more and more into Russian style of you know like in the postsviet disintegration more Russian style humiliation and then more reactive uh uh nationalism that we need to prevent otherwise it will be very very damaging for the country >> and also in the neighbors.
>> Thank you very much. That was very
>> Thank you so much Senator Collins. Thank you so much again very much for appearing today. We are truly grateful. Uh any questions on notice should be returned by the 27th of February. Uh thank you for thank you so much for all the incredible work you are doing and again uh sincerely we appreciate it.
Thank you, senators.