Senate Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Legislation Committee, , 2:49:23 to 3:09:04
Officials discuss Australia's diplomatic framework for Myanmar and the implementation of joint custody reforms in Japan affecting Australian parents.
Topics: Human rights, Law reform
Speakers: Elizabeth McGregor, Hon Penny Wong, Speaker 15, Michelle Chan, Senator Fatima Payman, Caroline Linke, Senator Raff Ciccone
>> Thank you. Thank you, chair. Good morning. Um does DEFAT maintain an explicit position of non-engagement with the military juna
>> uh in Myanmar?
>> In Myanmar. Sorry.
>> There's a few in the world.
even in some political parties too. But
>> do I have something? >> I don't know. What do I need for this?
U Michelle Chan, deputy secretary, South and Southeast Asia Group. Um, thank you, Senator, for your question. Um, Australia has consistently condemned the U Myanmar regime's brutal and ongoing atrocities against the people of Myanmar. We have very limited engagement uh with the regime and always in the national interest in the purs uh advocating or pursuing our national
interests. Thank you, Miss Chan. Um, what steps is the Australian government taking to encourage Azan to maintain restrictions on the attendance of Myanmar military leaders at regional summits until meaningful progress towards fulfillment of the five-point consensus is made.
Um Senator uh the Australian government um supports um uh Azan's leading role in trying to resolve the uh very bleak situation in Myanmar. Um our participation in Azanled forums is critical to Australia's security and prosperity. Um uh Myanmar of course is um a member of Azan. Um the Australian government uh ministers um the prime minister um officials um refer to our concerns um about the situation in Myanmar in depth when we um uh discuss uh when we meet um Azan counterparts. So um in it is quite um very common in fact at all engagements that we have uh with um Azan as a grouping we will outline our concerns about the situation in Myanmar and urge um uh all efforts towards implementation of the five point consensus. Um
advocates within uh Myanmar have raised concerns with me about an upcoming uh Azan regional forum sponsored workshop on unmanned aircraft systems as part of the counterterrorism cooperation framework. Um I understand that Australia is a co-chair of this workshop with Singapore and the USA. Is that
>> we're just checking that. No, that's
Um, uh, Caroline Linke, acting fest assistant secretary, Southeast Asia regional and mainland Division. Uh, Australia is not co-sponsoring an Azen regional forum workshop on the use of unmanned aircraft systems. Are we
co-chairing any workshop in that um, regional summit forum? Sorry.
We co-chair uh work streams within the Azan regional We are going to be co-chairing one on maritime security. I'm just trying to find if
>> while the official um is looking you you you've started your questions by what is our framework uh in terms of engagement with the the ya um I I it would be useful I think just just so you're aware I did uh as part of the Mr. Tel was it the foreign minister I can't remember. Sorry, I was trying to recall the name. I did as part of the advocacy for Sha Tanel to be released, engage with uh my with the the representative from the um the military government, military um but I um and you would also know I I hope that uh we have continued uh to um engage engage with the NU. You know, obviously we recognize states not government. Uh I met again with the NUG's national unity government's foreign minister last month, last month. Um and also with Angsuchi's son, Dongsuchi, >> Oh, sorry. Go ahead,
>> Slinky.
>> Slinky, go ahead.
>> In 2026, Australia co-chared two Azan regional forum officials levels meetings and one Azan regional forum experts and eminent persons meeting.
>> Um thank you. Um can you confirm that the military jun Myanmar would not be invited to participate in any of those workshops?
Consistent with Azan policies and processes, co-chairs invited all Azan regional forum members including Australia did not provide funding um and these meetings were not held in
has Australia had any contact with other participants in relation to this issue >> around the engagement or involvement of the juna participating the military
>> Um, Senator, if I could just make a a broader point. Um our engagement with um Azan as a grouping of course is fundamental to Australia's security and prosperity. As I mentioned um it is a key regional grouping with which we engage. Um ASEAN leaders um uh after the 2021 coup made a decision not to allow political level representation at their summit meetings, meetings of leaders and also in their foreign ministers meetings. That remains uh their position today. So at Azan foreign minister's meetings and um at the summits that are usually held twice a year they uh do not take part at that level. Um it is has been the practice um that myamar is represented by a um an official.
>> Thank you Mr. Chan. Thank you chair.
>> All right. Thanks Senator. Now Senator Roberts I understand you've got some questions on Japan.
>> I have. Thank you chair. Thank you for appearing today. Um these questions and the Wong are follow-ups from earlier questions regarding child support issues where children have been taken strongly from stolen rather from a a parent to and I respect and admire the Japanese people. Uh so this is a difficult issue and I understand it's sensitive Senator Wong who discussed that in the past. What's changed and what remains proposed in Australian child support law related to stolen children resident in Japan?
>> I I don't think we can speak to child support legislation here, Senator. what what we can speak to is the work we've done on to um support um advocate for or um uh consideration of um I think it's joint custody arrangements. I can't rec I think that's the term that we was used but the child support agency is not part
>> Is there someone going to speak to that? Uh, Senator Roberts, uh, Elizabeth McGregor, First Assistant Secretary, Consular and Crisis Management Division. Look, um, we recognize the profound and continuing impact of parent child separation on Australian families. This is a very difficult uh, and sensitive issue as you note. Um, but we have been working with Japan for a number of years now on their joint custody reforms. They have been in effect since the 1st of April this year. They're a very important step forward for Japan. Uh they will not automatically change existing sole custody arrangements or resolve all legacy cases. Uh but what we have done are doing and will continue to do uh is to provide consular assistance to affected families and we're also advocating that the reforms are implemented in a way that supports children having relationships with both parents where that is in the best interests of the child.
>> Thank you. Uh, Senator Wong, do you or the department give advice regarding adoption regarding changes of laws in
>> Sorry, changes of Australian law or changes of Japanese law,
>> So that
I'm sorry, Senator. I don't I don't quite understand what is this adoption or is this joint custody?
>> Joint custody.
>> so Senator, that would be a matter for the individuals in consultation with their lawyers. We do not provide legal advice as part of our constitution.
>> I mean I mean do you are you giving advice in regard to the Australian government to change laws in Australia?
>> Oh, I see. Sorry, I thought you meant to individuals. uh no that would be a matter for the portfolio is it DSS is
>> wouldn't they consult with you
>> social services
>> social
>> so that would be a matter for services Australia senator
>> surely they'd need to understand the situation in in Japan >> surely you'd be giving them advice
>> Senator I I I don't quite understand I'm I'm sorry I don't quite understand the point you're making. So what we've been what we have um contributed to and I've raised it with number of foreign ministers and we really appreciate the way in which Japan is has progressed this um uh is uh we have spoken about the our approach which of joint custody and I my recollection is the [clears throat] we had a family court judge go to Japan to talk through our legislative framework etc. Uh what are you asking? What are you saying should occur here in Australia?
>> What we've seen, Senator Wong, is wrongful removal or retention of children, unfulfilled return orders, and prolonged obstruction obstruction of safe contact assessed in are these being assessed in reform designed in Australia? Our laws, are you giving advice on these?
>> We we don't give advice on child support laws. If if if I you know the usual practice of government is if uh a department responsible believes it needs to engage with um another portfolio that is done. Um I I have I don't have personal knowledge of where the DSS has done that. Are you suggesting that the child support law should be changed? Is that the assertion?
>> I just want to know if anything is being considered in regard to that. sendable.
>> Well, I I wouldn't that that is a matter for the Department of Social Services.
>> You've had no interaction with Australian lawmakers.
>> Well, >> on this topic on this I know that, but >> um but um uh I don't have knowledge of a reform that we've engaged on on this.
>> Okay. Thank you. That's all I wanted to know. What representations came from Japan or other foreign governments and how are they being considered
>> on what issue?
>> On the abduction of of Australian children to now reside in Japan.
>> I think I mean I think the way I'd approach that is again go back to what I've spoken to you about before and that I referenced then. You know Japan had a very different legal system in relation to this issue. That obviously meant we saw um you know there were very we had uh there parents in Australia or Australian parents who were separated from their children and had that was extremely distressing. Um we've consistently advocated we have sought to provide consular support. Uh we've spoken to them about legislative reform uh and we welcome their reforms from uh April 2026. uh um and we contributed um by uh sharing our experience and our expertise in family law and dispute resolution. I don't know that I can add to that. I don't know if officials have anything
>> I think only to say that we've raised this at the very the mo the highest levels of the Japanese system senator over a number of years. Will you
continue to be doing that to advance the >> Because it's it's there's a s there's a sense that these reforms are minor. They're welcome, but they're minor.
>> So, I mean, we'll continue to advocate and we'll also continue to provide consular support to affected families. And we're currently assisting 16 parents in relation to 23 children uh since 2004. So that's how far back this assistance goes. We've assisted parents in relation to 90 children.
>> Are you able to tell me how big the issue is? For example, numbers of children affected, number of families affected, the uh amounts presumably collected for child custody payments.
>> Um so Senator, I refer to my previous answer. Uh we're currently assisting 16 parents in relation to 23 children and we've assisted parents in relation to 90 children since 2004. So we provide that consular assistance. Uh we continue to advocate uh for the implementation of the reforms uh in the best interests of the affected children in these cases.
>> Thank you. How do disputed care determinations, qualifying contact costs, adjustments, and direct payment credits operate internationally, including after interim protections
>> Um, Senator,
>> that varies from country to country.
>> Uh, so Senator, what I would say is that custody and access decisions are matters for Japanese courts. Um, and uh the situation I would imagine varies uh for different countries. Uh so I wouldn't speak to the broader global picture.
>> What mechanisms support safe contact and enforcement of relevant orders and with what outcomes?
>> Uh senator again they would be matters
>> What about have you considered proposed departure restrictions assessing necessary child contact travel here in in Japan as distinct from dead evasion and what exemptions or review would be available? the these matters you can influence.
>> Yes, Senator, again, they're matters for the courts. Um, and in terms of Australian laws, they're matters for
>> Senator Wong, that the last time we spoke on this difficult issue, [clears throat] it was indicated you had limited knowledge about seminars run in Brisbane for Japanese parents about taking children to live in Japan. One such seminar was held on the 16th of February 2024 at the Japanese consulate general in Brisbane. Attendees included Phoenix Law and Associates and an official from Japan's Ministry of Foreign Affairs H Convention Office. A [clears throat] representative of International Social Security Australia had been invited but pulled out beforehand. So I'm just press passing on advice you because you had no no uh
This is a Japanese government event
>> held at the Japanese consulate general with representatives from Japan
>> and couple of years ago
>> uh 16th of February 2024. Can you tell us uh any more about the April 2026 joint custody reforms in Japan? I know it's not long. It's only 6
Um so Senator um those reforms did come into effect on the 1st of April uh and as noted previously we have done a lot of work with Japan both prior to that date uh to share expertise uh in terms of uh our experience in this very complex area. uh they are an important step uh but now of course uh implementation lies ahead uh we'll continue to work with Japan on that process uh as noted previously it will not automatically change existing sole custody arrangements or resolve all legacy cases uh but we are continuing to uh support Japan in this process uh to make sure that implementation occurs in a way that supports children having relationships uh with both parents where it is in their interests.
>> How will you assess the impact of these changes on Australian children and parents once more time is is elapses.
Uh I I guess Senator, we welcome all feedback on our consular uh assistance and there are channels through what which that feedback can be collected uh including through our posts overseas uh and the smart traveler website as well as our conversations that we have with our clients. Um and through those channels we will continue to gather information uh on the experience of our clients and use that to inform our engagement with Japanese authorities uh including through regular consultations that we have with Japan uh on uh consular issues uh as well as other bilateral engagements that we have.
>> Thank you. Thank you. Thank you chair.
>> You're welcome Senator. Thank you. Um, now Senator PCO, I understand you've got some questions.