Senate Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Legislation Committee, , 1:56:00 to 1:59:05
Further debate on whether overprogrammed projects are considered 'unfunded' and the legitimacy of overprogramming in defense procurement.
Topics: Government spending, National security
Speakers: Meghan Quinn, James Paterson, Mark Hammond, Unknown Speaker, Jacqui Lambie
>> sorry I said sorry, sorry, sorry.
>> Uh, we'll have some further questions on the IIP. Um, I just want to follow up Senator Darling's questions about over programming because I had some similar questions and in particular cuz I caught a podcast that the VCDF did um recently where he mentioned that one of the ways which the defense is engaging with risk is is through overprogramming. And Secretary, if I understand your evidence correctly, overprogramming is quite a legitimate tool to make sure that we don't have under spends in defense. Is that a fair summary?
>> That that's correct. In defense and and elsewhere, um if we uh complex programs uh quite a number of programs and projects, uh we want to make sure that we get best value for money in any particular year. It is a mechanism to uh to to to track to ensure that we come in close uh to our budget. Um we've had slight overspends, slight underspends uh and we manage that through active management of projects but also active management of the whole portfolio of projects.
>> And if there wasn't overprogramming just due to the nature of defense procurement, there would be under spends you know on a routine basis, wouldn't
there? >> Possibly. Um there uh possibly uh it depends a little bit whether you've got the ability to bring things forward. uh if you if you got halfway through the year and realized that there were some projects running late for some uh extraneous reason, if you had the ability to bring things forward, you may not need as much overp programming. But given the time and complexity of some of the projects and the need to work with industry partners to upskill or add add uh additional facilities, um it has been a legitimate exercise in big infrastructure projects, big capability projects to think about overprogramming
overprogramming that is in the 2026 IP, would you say that those projects are unfunded or would you say it's just part of the management defense budget?
>> So uh the individual projects have been allocated funding that meets the requirements uh put forward through the capability uh process. Uh and so individual projects are funded. Uh and then the question is uh how to make sure that uh the whole program uh comes in on budget.
>> Yeah. So they're not unfunded, right?
>> Fun. No, individual projects are allocated funding,
>> right? So why does the deputy prime minister pro it describe overprogramming as under the previous government which is the same as is under this government as unfunded projects.
>> Uh you would have to put that to him. I mean there is an there is a a requirement uh while while individual projects have got allocations of funding it's important that we think about the overall balance of projects to make sure that we can uh deliver the capability over time. Um I I'd have to see the specifics of the of the information you're you're talking to to be able to provide additional view. I think I think
the key point um the deputy prime minister has made senator is the scale of over overprogramming that existed