Senate Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Legislation Committee, , 1:45:00 to 1:50:06
Inquiry into legal protections for ADF members against sexual harassment and discrimination while serving overseas or on international waters under the Sex Discrimination Act.
Topics: Human rights, Law reform, Workplace culture
Speakers: Jacqui Lambie, Meghan Quinn, Francesca Rush, Raff Ciccone, Mark Hammond
>> All right. Um I'll come to Senator Lambie now and then Senator Paterson after that.
>> Uh thank you, Chair. Um I'll need Lieutenant Fox. Lieutenant General Fox. Sorry, just >> you.
>> So, Senator, perhaps we just clarify the topic of questions that you have. Make
sure that you got the appropriate
witness.
>> Is abuse in defense?
>> Uh, so it it may it may go to a policy question, >> etc. So, happy for you to ask the question and we'll make sure the right person's at the table.
>> Okay. So, um on the 2nd of December 2025, Mr. Ko stated that sexual misconduct in the defense force is unacceptable wherever it occurs. Do you accept that the Australian Defense Force members should be protected from sexual discrimination, sexual harassment under Australian law regardless of where they are serving?
>> As Senate Admiral Hammond, Chief Defense Force, I can answer that. Yes.
>> Okay. So, the law firm GGA Saddler has start has started a class action in the Federal Court of Australia on behalf of current and ex- serving ADF members, females who have experienced sexual assault or discrimination while serving in the ADF. I do understand though the case is before the courts and technically falls under a different portfolio. However, defense still has a responsibility explain explain its policies to serving members. So has the Australian Defense Force bothered to inform their members that the legal protection against assault, discrimination or abuse may not apply to conduct that occurs o on overseas basis or ships on international waters.
So Senator, I might just put this into context and then the specifics on the ADF side. So right across um both the public service and the ADF, we have a requirement under the respect at work act uh to provide the protections that you're talking about. We have implemented uh our internal policy on that which requires every commanding officer and every senior every officer with uh public servant within the public service as well to do uh to understand their obligations to look at a risk assessment and to take action against that risk assessment to ensure a safe workplace uh for the for their staff particularly related to sexual violence. that policy is been has been implemented. It has been communicated and will be actioned uh with a high priority across uh the public service and the ADF. There's been a great deal of work with uh experts uh and and in how to do this and the support mechanisms and we've put a lot of effort into making sure that senior officers understand their obligations and have the capability and tools to be able to undertake it. Um we have been very clear both myself and the CDF uh that there is no place in either the public service or the defense forces for uh abuse against other staff including relating to sexual violence. There is a unified view amongst our leadership about the importance and focus on this issue and we take it very seriously.
>> So you are talking about when it happens on overseas bases or ships on international waters.
>> We have accountability for our staff.
>> I know you've got accountability. When did that change in law? I'm sorry, I haven't seen a law change with that up
>> So that the the the work of the respect at work act requires accountable officers to ensure a safe workplace for their staff wherever they are.
>> Okay. So that will now cover what has been missing. Is that that what you're telling me?
>> It requires us to ensure a safe workplace for where
>> Yeah. I know that's not what I'm asking you though. Okay. Because I haven't seen a law change on that. That's the first place. you might have said a work workplace but it hasn't been changed in law and that is one of the reasons uh that GJA Saddler has been fighting in court because they didn't have that can you tell me if that's been changed in
law so the I'll pass to our legal
>> thank you secretary um Senator Fran Rush chief counsel at defense in terms of your question which relates to the extr territoriality of the sex discrimination act uh the law has not been changed but in the context of the of the matter. Um the matter will be this issue will be considered as part of the proceedings.
>> And how long do you think that law change will take? Because it's
>> I I couldn't talk to the law change. That's obviously a different policy authority as the attorney general's department actually.
>> And who's dealing with the attorney attorney general's department in defense on this issue?
>> There are a range of engagements going. It's a policy authority of the attorney general's department under their human rights legislation policy. So that that engagement continues on an ongoing basis across a number of agencies.
>> So we've got no timeline on this or anything. Even though there's an abuse problem in our defense forces which has come out quite clearly which I haven't finished with yet. We're still no time line on this to have this changed for these women.
>> Certainly this issue on the sex discrimination act is a different issue to our defense force discipline act which of course does apply extr
Uh all of us are very aware of the illegal camera incident that occurred recently in HMAS Luan. Has the audit of all bathroom facilities across the naval fleet been completed?