Senate Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Legislation Committee, , 6:11:58 to 6:23:20
Detailed briefing on Australia's $1.9 billion military and financial assistance to Ukraine, including Operation Kudu.
Topics: ADF, National security
Speakers: Hugh Jeffrey, Raff Ciccone, Mark Hammond, David Shoebridge, Hon Murray Watt
>> we'll come back to this we'll come back
>> we certainly will we certainly will now look I mean just on the topic of Ukraine I know we've spoken at length in this committee previously um about Australia's support for the Ukraine how has um defense been continued to support uh the people of Ukraine since we last um had you here in estimates
>> uh thank you chair Hugh Jeffrey deputy secretary strategy policy international So the uh as you know in 2022 um Russia conducted an unprovoked and illegal invasion of Ukraine. Um this invasion was a profound abrogation of the Russian Federation's responsibilities as a permanent member of the UN Security Council which as you know being a member of that council you are among the architects and the stewards of international law the foundation stone of which is the territorial integrity of states. It was also a profound breach of its commitments under the 20 uh 19 94 >> uh Budapest memorandum which as you know
uh >> good to see Senator Schub is now leaving while we're talking about it for Ukraine. But anyway,
>> there is much discussion
>> unbelievable
>> in this committee about nuclear non-prololiferation and how that works in international law. The Budapest memorandum was the treaty under which or the memorandum under which Ukraine agreed to seed its nuclear arsenal, the third largest in the world at that time to the Russian Federation in exchange for Russian commitments uh to Ukraine's inter uh uh integrity territorial integrity in current borders uh to refrain from the use of force against uh Ukraine and to refrain from economic coercion that would subordinate uh Ukraine sovereign at Russia's interests that the decision to invade Ukraine in 22 2022 represents uh I think the most serious abrogation of modern nuclear uh diplomacy um that we have seen and it is one of the reasons why the invasion of Ukraine is so dangerous. It uh illustrates the macity at the at the heart of Russian disinformation on Ukraine. And it also underlines why it is so important that countries like Australia support uh Ukraine to end this war on its own terms and to ensure that the manner in which the war concludes does so in a way that convinces states that the Russian invasion was a huge miscalculation >> and sets back its interests by many years. We do not want the invasion of Ukraine to become a template for other states because ultimately the invasion is less about Russian insecurity and more about uh how Russia might use force to change not only international borders but how the international system works and the nuclear element is so crucial because the lesson state might learn from this is that you never seed your nuclear weapons if you have them or that you might need them if you don't have them. M >> so that's why the Budapest man memorandum is so central. The Australian government um has been a robust supporter of Ukraine. Uh total dollar value um is approximately $1.9 billion getting close to $2 billion. Uh that support is is divided up into two different key tranches. It is um material and financial support for um the defense of Ukraine as conducted by its armed forces and ADF commitments under operation in Kudu which is how do we help uh working with our international partners to help train and develop the Ukrainian armed forces. Uh in this year also the government has announced an additional uh60 million in support of Ukraine and Australian dollars. That includes 45 million to um of Australian Defense Force equipment, 10 million for uh Ukraine's um energy support fund and 5 million in humanitarian assistance including for the International Committee of the Red and other humanitarian initiatives. And Australia will also join the United Kingdom um le maritime capability coalition for Ukraine to support the development of Ukraine's navy as you know senator um and a chair and colleagues um the Russian Red Sea uh Black Sea fleet has been largely kept to its bases or sunk and Russia doesn't actually have Ukraine doesn't actually have a navy because it's worked so effectively with new autonomous systems and we want to work with them to help develop that capability and I think also in uh 19th of June 2026, the government announced an additional hund00 million contribution over the next 12 months uh to NATO's prioritize Ukrainian requirements lists, which essentially allows Ukrainian it funds uh it it contributes to a fund that Ukraine can use to acquire capabilities internationally from the United States and other partners uh in the aid of its own defense. 50 million of that contribution uh also goes to the NATO um prioritize Ukraine requirements list initiative, $43 million package for ADF material and 2 million contribution to the drone capability uh coalition. Um and it also includes sanctions on 45 more vessels linked to Russia's shadow fleet, which as you know is a key way that Russia avoids sanctions in relation to its energy exports. Um and finally I would just add that activities under operation operation kudu include training for forces of um Ukraine's personnel. In late May 2026, defense uh uh pivoted operation kudu training support from United Kingdom's operation interflex. Um uh and what and and then this consisted of a rotational force of approximately 90 ADF personnel based in the United Kingdom and trained more than 3,600 out of 56,000 Ukrainians. And it's now being uh transitioning to a Norwegian-led operation Leio. Um and we will continue to support um that activity along with a range of other nations. Um uh and since 2024, Australian um defense force personnel have participated in the support assistance group, which is um Ukraine working with NATO on um developing um operational partnerships on not only just training but also on logistics and theater support. So that's the list uh of what the Australian government has authorized in support of Ukraine and that we continue to do so um on the defense side while our foreign ministry colleagues focus very heavily on um working with our partners on peace negotiations.
>> Thank you for that uh Mr. Jeff. I think that's um a really good summary about where we've got to since we last had you in estimates and I know the ambassador Ukraine here in CRA is very appreciative as is his government president uh Zinsky and many others the diaspora I think are very thankful for the Australian government support in fact the bipartisan support I should add really between the government and the opposition uh towards the people of Ukraine. Um in terms of um our military support, um was any um other aspects that we are making a contribution to its self-defense against uh uh you know Russians invasion? I wasn't sure if there was anything else that needed to uh that you needed to add uh other than what you've just uh um singled out um to
me. No, Senator, other than the fact that of course there's been some discussion around a coalition of the willing of like-minded states being willing to um enter into an agreement where a ceasefire would be underwritten >> by a foreign uh coalition uh that would uh be able to reinforce Ukraine's defense and act as a backs stop. Um those negotiations and discussions continue but ultimately hinge on the uh um the a durable ceasefire being established between Russia and Ukraine.
>> So what would a policy of ceasing military aid to Ukraine do in terms of benefiting Russia? What are the practical implications then? Well,
Senator, I think that um Russ uh Ukraine is committing a large proportion the large the line share of its GDP um to uh defend its territory and its people. Uh it uh has achieved enormous amounts in terms of the development of its battlefield capability particularly in terms of its ability to grow its autonomous systems. But uh it would not be able to sustain uh its current level of combat operations or its defense along its borders uh and the front line as it currently exists without robust international assistance. The the European its European partners now are the primary providers of um financial and military assistance to support Ukraine's defense. But um support from other partners including um from Ukraine's Indo-Pacific partners remain vitally important and I think that uh uh it would be uh it it would have a serious impact on Ukraine's ability to defend itself if countries began to reduce their assistance.
Senator, if I may short, during the first few weeks in this role, I received uh a number of um uh uh requests for conversations either in person or by BTC from counterparts around the world. One of the notable ones was from the Polish chief uh Vishlov who uh was at pains to to thank Australia for our contribution uh to training Ukrainians in Poland. uh and um uh inspired by the fact that a nation on the other side of the planet would make such a contribution to uh the preservation of a democratic state. Um similarly face-to-face conversations with my German counterpart, Norwegian counterpart and uh and Danish counterpart in the Netherlands uh only two weeks ago in Japan, they all reiterated their um great respect uh and gratitude for Australia's contribution uh to um supporting them and their neighborhood uh in the manner that we have been. So, I think that the the um the incredible uh incredibly positive outpouring of of gratitude that I've experienced in my first few months in the job is directly connected to the contributions that we have made to supporting Ukraine over there. And we should not lose sight of that.
>> Indeed. And I think words do matter particularly in this place. You know, when we've got colleagues on mainly the crossbench, particularly the grains referring to Ukraine as the Ukraine, I think that sends a very strong and dangerous message, particularly to people who are suffering at the moment who are reliant on countries like Australia to support them. So, I think it's important that we've got very good strong bipartisanship and and obviously the work that the men and women that uh were in our uniform in the military do every single day.