Senate Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Legislation Committee [Part 2], , 23:46 to 32:02
The committee discusses the Trade and Sustainable Development chapter of the EU FTA, focusing on labor and climate obligations and whether enforcement will follow the New Zealand model.
Topics: Trade policy, Climate change
Speakers: Sarah Henderson, Mr. Lachlan Crews, Raff Ciccone, Mr. Ravi Kewalram, Speaker 4, Senator Raff Ciccone, Senator Sarah Henderson
>> Any other national secrets you'd like us
to discuss? >> I was in the middle of trying to text uh Minister Farrell, but I I'll have to um [clears throat] Yes, I do. Thank you, chair. At the last hearing, officials said the EU's approach to our FTA regarding the TSD chapter was closely similar to the New Zealand model. So, has the EU changed its proposal to Australia since then? >> Uh, no.
>> And can you just expand on your answer? >> Um, so the outcome in the TSD uh chapter will be the same as the New Zealand EU
FTA. Okay. So, an EU Commission fact sheet states that the EU NZ FTA makes TSD commitments legally binding and enforceable and contemplates temporary suspension of trade preferences as a last resort for serious violations of core commitments regardless of impact on trade. So, does DEFAT accept that is an accurate description of the EUZ approach? So the
ability to temporarily suspend trade preferences under RFTA will be limited to violations of certain specific labor or climate change obligations made under the tsd chapter.
So the EU sanctions as last resort approach implemented in the EU NZ deal was not applied in the India EU agreement which instead leans on consultation on cooperation for environmental matters. Does DEFAD accept that if the EU is willing to do consultation not compliance with India then Australia should at minimum be able to negotiate equivalent flexibility?
>> Well again that that comes down to the final parameters of the deal and I'm unable to comment on that specifically.
>> Right. So you can't provide any further information. No. >> Is that because it's there's some commercial and confidence aspect to
that? >> Uh it's because the outcome is subject to the conclusion of the final package.
>> Okay. Is DEFAT using the EU's India approach as a precedent to argue against NZ style enforcement for Australia?
Well, my understanding of the tsd chapter is that it was um substantially concluded before the India EU deal was done. Um so the India deal will not necessarily have a material impact on the outcomes and tsd for Australia EU.
The EU's Merkasaur fact sheet says Paris becomes an essential element and that tsd disputes run through consultations and panels of a panel of experts with recommendations made public. Does DEFAT consider that model less intrusive than NZ style trade preference suspension for tsd breaches? >> I'll have to take that on notice, Senator. >> And why why is that? Do you not
[clears throat] know? I'm not familiar with the details of the DSD chapter.
>> Okay. Will DEFAT rule out agreeing to any EU Australia FTA text that enables suspension of tariff preferences for alleged Paris related non-compliance even as last resort and regardless of impact on trade. >> I'll have to take that on notice too. >> And can I ask why that is?
>> Because I'm not familiar with the details of the TSD chapter.
>> Does does anyone else have those
details? Um, our negotiators are in Brussels. >> I'm sorry. >> Our negotiators are in Brussels at the moment. So, the people who are most intimately involved in >> and also as Mr. Cruz said, >> the final parameters of the package are subject to negotiation.
And we know the EU Merkasaur agreement does not have a sanctionable tsd chapter and we have now seen that the EU India agreement doesn't either. Has DEFAT insisted that our deal be in line with these deals where there is a non sanctionable tsd outcome?
>> My understanding of the tsd outcome is it it is the same as the New Zealand EU agreement. Can you >> So it's not not relevant to the Masaur outcome or the India outcome.
>> Would the government accept enforcable sustainability sanctions when Merkasaur and India did not do so?
>> Um I'll have to take that on notice, Senator. I don't know the details of the TSG chapter well enough to answer.
>> Okay. And no one else here has that
detail? >> No. So the chief negotiator is in Brussels.
>> In Brussels. Okay. Uh, does this effectively allow the EU to impose its domestic policy preferences through trade enforcement? I guess that's a a key issue.
>> Um, my inclin Well, I I think the answer to that question is no, but again, I'll have to take it on notice and we will
check. >> All right. Thank you. Chair, I am just um No one else is seeking the call. >> All right. Well, look, I'm in terms of um DFAT, I'm very happy to move on to in the program.
>> Thank you, mate. I appreciate that. >> Thank you. >> All right. Well, can I say thank you very much? I know there's a number of you that um obviously are not obviously are not here. Um but can you also just pass on our thanks and best wishes? Um hopefully there will be a good outcome for everyone involved particularly for Australia and our farmers. Um I'm sure Senator Farrell and um uh George and the team are doing an excellent job over that at the moment. And you know Ravi given your past experience with a number of other agreements um how important but also um these things just don't happen overnight either too. It takes time to get a a good deal which I'm sure knowing Senator Ferrell um will come good with the goods. So um pass one out. Thanks. >> Thank you chair. Thank you senators. >> Thanks everyone. Have a good night. Now, uh, on that note, we are now going to have the Australian Trade and Investment Commission come to the table. >> Thanks, Sarah. >> We'll just suspend. Can we just suspend briefly, please? All right, welcome back everyone.