Senate Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Legislation Committee [Part 2], , 1:39:55 to 1:52:15
Discussion covers the construction of waste facilities at HMAS Stirling and remuneration strategies for the nuclear-powered submarine workforce.
Topics: Infrastructure, Public service staffing
Speakers: Senator Fatima Payman, Tim Hodgson, Josh Watkin, Senator Andrew McLachlan, Interjection, Speaker 1
>> Thank you, Chair. Uh good evening. Um From 2027 and under the submarine rotational force West program, Australia will host US and UK nuclear powered submarines on rotation. Is that correct? >> That's correct, Senator. >> Um I understand that as part of this operation, there will be maintenance of those submarines generating low-level radioactive maintenance waste, which is planned to be stored at the controlled industrial facility at HMAS Stirling. Is that correct? >> That's correct, Senator. >> Um is the controlled industrial facility completed? >> Um let me pass that over to Mr. Tim Hodson. >> Thank you.
>> Tim Hodson, Deputy Director General Technical. Uh no, the the facility is not yet completed. Uh we are It is a staged process. Uh we are in the We have um largely finished in preparation for Surf West next year, the ability to take uh initial levels of low-level waste, and um our ability then will build to have more improved labs and uh other capabilities over the period of reaching our full operating capability for when we become sovereign ready. So, it's an ongoing process uh by which time we'll have the the entire facility, but we will we still have sufficient to take, as I say, low levels of low-level waste. These are the things we've described before, such as rags, filters, tools, being able to clean tools, and uh return them as necessary. So, that type of routine maintenance activity.
>> Is there a rough date or or idea of when this is going to reach completion, the construction's going to be complete by next year? Is that what you mentioned?
>> Well, it as I say, it's a staged process, so um I'll hand over to Mr. Josh Watkin for the uh detailed dates in terms of the construction schedule.
>> Thank you, Senator. Josh Watkin, Head of Infrastructure Planning and Coordination Division. As Mr. Hodson has said, initially, we have capabilities and facilities sufficient for the initial expected low-level waste. That's in place at HMAS Stirling at the moment with the appropriate licenses are being finalized in readiness for Q4 next year.
>> Q4 next year.
>> As those rotational forces continue, that capacity required will continue to grow. We are in the process of uh finalizing procurement for a head contractor to develop to develop and construct the enduring controlled industrial facility. The site preparation and site clearing activities have progressed. They are almost complete. We expect that the contract for the head contractor of the controlled industrial facility will be awarded in the coming months uh and will be complete in the next 24-ish months um sufficient in time to finalize testing, commissioning, and be ready in all respects with the additional labs well before we require that capability and capacity in future rotational forces.
>> Mhm. Thank you, Mr. Watkins. Um do we know what the total cost of the construction or expected cost upon completion is? So, this is including all the costs of preparing the assessment documents, investigations, licensing, all of all of that.
>> Senator, I'll take that question on notice. Um the controlled industrial facility is being designed, developed, and delivered in conjunction with our delivery partners at Security and Estate Group. Um I'll take on notice to um provide a a response.
>> Thank you. is there any financial arrangement with the US or UK government to recoup costs for the construction of the facility uh to store their radioactive waste? >> No. No, that is not the plan. Uh Senator, that was never agreed to. >> Are Are there any other wastes that are expected to be stored here other than the maintenance waste from US and UK nuclear powered submarines?
>> Uh Tim Hodgson, uh Deputy Director General Technical. Uh no, uh the only the only waste that will be there will be waste from uh routine maintenance activities uh from initially from US and UK submarines to enable us to build our capabilities capability to be able to handle this type of activity this type of article. Obviously in the longer term it will be Australian generated waste that will be predominantly in there.
>> But initially it's for the UK and US.
>> The UK and US and it is only the low-level waste we're talking about and those items I've already described.
>> So under scenario where Australia for whatever multitude of reasons does not end up with our own nuclear powered submarines, Australians would have spent however much when Mr. Dutton lets us know on a radioactive waste storage facility which is also known as the controlled industrial facility which could be exclusively for the US and UK visiting nuclear powered submarines, correct?
>> Well, that's a hypothesis that is is difficult to answer at this stage because we are planning against our own need not not such a hypothesis.
>> I understand but we can still answer hypothesis in those sorts of situations it would be difficult I guess for us to be spending so much money to house the US and UK's I guess nuclear submarines.
>> Senator what I can really talk about I'm afraid is our plans and our plans don't recognize that.
>> Thank you.
>> as an occurrence I apologize.
>> Thank you. That's all for me, chair.
>> Okay, any other senators with questions to the ASA?
>> I have one. I have one, chair.
>> Oh, yes, please. Senator McLachlan,
hello, welcome. Admiral Mead, I asked you a question around workforce management and the creating a very specialist workforce and I inquired around the the worry that you train them and then they leave. And your response then was their enthusiastic good morale. do you have anything to enlighten us further? Uh I has the risk of people leaving increased? Uh and if so, I how you mitigating or have you changed your uh by ne- by necessary your change in your leadership or management approach?
>> So, if if if I talk about um the Australian uh officers and sailors who are being trained in the US uh on Virginia class submarines uh either um in the specialized um reactor courses, nuclear reactor courses, or in broader aspects, other aspects of the Virginia class submarine, um we have uh 200 people that uh have either been trained or or or in the training system, we have uh about 70 60 to 70 sailors and officers at sea right now on US Virginia class submarines. Um the attrition rate is extremely low. Um and in fact, what I would say is um I interview all the officers that go across to the US and I I ask them the question um why are you transferring or why I mean many of these people are straight in off the street who have done basic training uh at our um training establishments and I say, "Why do you want to enter the nuclear powered program?" And their answers are varied, but will always have the same singular answer um amongst their other reasons, and it is the sense of purpose, the sense of duty to be part of a deterrent capability that will defend Australia. They are also very enthused about uh operating and being part of some of the most advanced and complex uh um engineering machinery in the world. So, it's a very similar answer I get when I go to the US. And I said the attrition rates from all those people that have doing probably some of the hardest courses in the world and uh are working extremely long hours to attain the qualifications is is less than 1%. We're having a magnificent uh success story with this. Uh and we're also seeing this with the industrial workforce that are going across to Pearl Harbor that have been trained. Um we currently have about 250 ASC workers that are over at Pearl. About 25 or 30 have graduated and are back in Australia. And we have a very low separation rate there as well. And they are um really excited uh when uh right now because they're working on USS Colorado, but they're really looking forward to 2027.
>> Are there any reservations about the allowances or remuneration that we need to reflect on going forward to maintain the workforce for your needs, both strategic and in the interim?
>> So, defense has gone to the defense force remuneration tribunal to recognize uh a new nuclear specialization. Um and then my understanding is that has been successful. And there are allowances uh that Australian Submarine Corporation are paying uh the people their people that are over at Pearl Harbor undergoing training. Um to you know why to act as a retention uh benefit but also to compensate them on um the skill sets and the work that they have invested for the benefit of this country and their fellow country people.
>> No further questions, Chair.
Thanks, Senator. All right. Well, on that note, good to see you, Vice Admiral. Whether we see you next time is in question, I guess, but all the best.
>> Thank you very much, Chair.
>> I I don't know whether to say I hope to see you next time, but for your sake, maybe not.
>> I wish the committee all the best.
>> Thank you. Have a lovely Christmas. Have a lovely break and and Christmas and all the best for the future, too. And thanks to all your officers as well. Good to see you all.
>> very much. I wish you all a enjoyable Christmas and I hope you all get a a good break over that time period.
>> Let's hope so. All right. Well, on that note, we are now going to um move to the Australian Naval Nuclear Power Safety Regulator. There's a couple of name plaques here from the other agency. Just before people go, do you someone want to grab those name plaques? Ours will make fun for a for the Christmas party later. All right.