Senate Finance and Public Administration Legislation Committee, , 6:02:44 to 6:10:46
Examination of First Nations leadership within the Australian Public Service, monitoring resignations, and addressing systemic racism.
Topics: First Nations, Public service staffing, Workplace culture
Speakers: Speaker 20, Julie-Ann Guivarra, Senator Barbara Pocock
>> Very very variable outcomes between jurisdictions um which raise a whole lot of questions about justice. >> Um I want to move then to um First Nations leaders in the public sector in and public service roles. Over the past year, we've seen a lot of prominent First Nations leaders resign from government positions out of frustration or lack of progress. Dr. Eddie Kubilo, uh, I hope I've pronounced that properly, quit the Commonwealth Justice Policy Partnership over failures to act on bail laws. Numerous children's commissioners have resigned over responses to child protection and incarceration. In Queensland, Joshua Kmer accused the government of implementing an organized strategy to get rid of indigenous roles in government agencies. Is the agency, your agency, monitoring the number of First Nations public servants and advisory body members resigning from positions and how are you tracking or not tracking this really important change and loss?
>> So certainly uh Senator, we're looking at it at the Commonwealth level again. So we have had and I think we've spoken to them about them previously at Senate Estimates initiatives um in the Commonwealth public service to actually increase the number of uh first nations uh senior executive service. There was an initiative called the SCS 100 which we we ran with the um Australian public service commission. Uh so we're keeping an active um uh monitoring of what's happening with the numbers under the SCS 100 and I'll get um our co u Miss Jackson to talk about that briefly in relation to what's happening in other jurisdictions. I mean we are aware of some of those um resignations that you have have referred to. Um there there's a number that have obviously happened in the Northern Territory in in Queensland. We know that there's been a number of appointments that uh first nations people that haven't been renewed in recent times by the Queensland government. Um so yes, in general terms, we are sort of keeping a track of what's happening um across those jurisdictions. Again though to the minister's um point earlier, she she um looks at all of these issues in relation to what's happening on closing the gap because one of those issues obviously is um what's happening in terms of um transformation under priority reform three of government in in its uh in its ways that it's dealing with First Nations communities. And part of that is actually the responsibility of those jurisdictions, states and territories to be looking at how they're addressing systemic racism in their own services.
So, I I just want to go to you just pursue my I'm sure I can find out about the program. Um, do you review APSC reports and staff surveys with a particular lens on racism within the
>> I might just hand across. Yeah,
>> Senator, um, we we certainly have been uh we we recently um provided evidence to the um joint standing committee on on racism. um and it's been brought to our attention uh a lot of the um employee experiences in in the APS uh which I spoke about at that inquiry and I we work very closely with the Australian Public Service Commission who do that monitoring and produce um reports and and share reports um based on different cohorts that of um people including Aboriginal Touristra Islander staff in the APS that report experiences of racism in the in the public service. Uh and um we support um the Indigenous Champions Network in looking at racism as a particular priority. Uh Secretary Jones is the chair of the Indigenous Champions Network. We work closely with the uh uh indigenous SCES network and the um and the Indigenous Cross Agency network to um hear from their experiences as well. and we are in the process of developing a priority reform strategy following the release of the recent priority reforms roadmap which is a commonwealth initiative and and particular pillar of that is eliminating racism in the public service.
>> So can I ask have you spoken with Dr. Kubilo the former commissioner Musk Mr. KMA or others about what led to their
>> Um I think Dr. Gabillo actually um issued a letter at the time of his resignation from the the Justice Policy Partnership as to the reasons why uh he he chose not to participate with the the JP. Um uh we have from time to time had interactions with um uh with with Dr. KMA as well about sort of you know what was happening obviously around the time of the um the uh truthtelling inquiries uh and this the cessation in in Queensland. Um so we are aware of the issues. I mean some of it is actually I think to the point that Rachel has also raised. I mean it's come up in the context of the racism inquiry that the government and the minister has had called for earlier this year. I think there's 700 odd submissions to that inquiry have indicated that there is an experience of racism and that's not just first nations people in communities. It is also an experience of of public servants as as well. So um yeah I would say it exists and and it's things that we have to deal with.
>> So what do you do specifically? If I got >> uh I I'll need one more go but I could just finish on this topic if that's okay. >> Sure. I don't have a lot more I can say. You look relieved. Um what do you specifically do to encourage and support uh First Nations people into leadership?
Oh well within the public service we do have the um the SCS 100 initiative and we we are working with the um public service to uh commission to uh run more programs under that initiative um shortly that includes not only recruiting uh to um senior executive positions but there's there are um development pathways there's a there's an SCES senior executive service um program called Yawwara and there's a an executive level um program called Bull that um support um that um career pipeline to senior executive roles. We through um the CEO uh her role on the secretaries board regularly um talk about senior leadership at the um uh the first nations representation at senior leadership um uh tables and and promote um not only recruitment but but development for first nations staff into those senior leadership roles. That's not just the recruitment element, it's the conversation around cultural safety in those environments and particularly where there's not in some departments not very many senior leaders in those roles. And so there's a there's a big conversation about cultural safety at the moment in the in the coup collaboration circle which is a a formal mechanism under the chief operating officers committee uh in the public service that uh has um uh a number of chief operating officers meet with first nations staff from across the public service at different levels but in a in a way that is brings people together at where there's no hierarchy and we talk about one of the issues that we're talking about at the moment ment is cultural safety. And we've been working with Comare on uh on um further definitions and information for departments about um their response uh and uh promotion of cultural safety in the work in the workplace. There's a bunch of other programs I could talk about, Senator, but um I imagine you're short on time.