Senate Finance and Public Administration Legislation Committee, , 9:01:02 to 9:06:07
Questioning regarding the timeline of when the Prime Minister and PM&C became aware of the ATO's decision to stop absorbing credit card surcharges.
Topics: Government spending, Trade policy
Speakers: Hon Jane Hume, Anthea Harris, Dr Louise Rawlings, Dr Steven Kennedy, Unknown Speaker, Ms Anthea Harris, Senator Karen Grogan, Speaker 46
>> Okay, if that's all right. Thank you. Uh, Dr. Kennedy, this one has blown me away. When did PMNC when were they first made aware of um the that the ATO is considering ending credit card payments?
>> Uh, I'll just have to ask some colleagues to come to the table and help me with this one. I think it's Miss Harris and some other colleagues.
While that's occurring, can I just welcome um Minister Ayres >> to the table?
>> Thank you.
>> Thank you. Um that decision was made by the ATO in late September and um PMNC was made aware at that time
>> in in late September.
>> Yes, that's right.
>> Right. So when the prime minister said at the Aki dinner that he only became aware of the decision I think it was the day before uh and then had a call from um who was it? Mr. Andrew um Mckela I think it was uh that morning and then fixed it that afternoon. That is that
Senator? I can't answer to um calls that the that the prime minister has taken. But in terms of um the department's activities, um that was when we were made aware at that time. So,
>> okay. So, look, Dr. Kennedy, obviously, you know, you're the prime minister's principal policy advisor. How can it be possible that the prime minister didn't know about a $200 million a year policy decision for a government agency not to absorb the costs arising from the credit card searchcharge ban prior to its implementation? I mean, he sits on cabinet. He sits on the expenditure review committee. He has dozens of personal staff engaging with ministerial officers and the assistant treasurer and now your own department has openly stated that this was known for some time. Is it possible that the impacts of the search charge ban on small businesses government agency was never considered at cabinet or was it never considered by the expenditure review committee or a subcommittee of any sort?
>> Uh the issue was known for some an issue was known about for some time. the decision of the tax commissioner because I believe it's his decision um came later in the piece um but I can try and give you some dates perhaps through my
Louise Rawlings first assistant secretary economic division the prime minister has publicly indicated that the expenditure review committee considered this proposal on Friday the 9th of I would have to take that on notice but I understand he has indicated we convened the expenditure of the committee. This is a a quote of the prime minister and we unanimously right across the leadership of the government agreed that the decision by the ATO to have a limited period of pause on the ban that had been imposed needed to be extended so that there would be proper consultation with small business.
it's not plausible then that the first time the prime minister became aware of it the issue was when he was received a text from the a um from um the head of Aki as he said at the Aki dinner.
>> Uh Senator I think we've taken on notice whether or not the prime minister was in attendance at that meeting of ARC. So we'll just need to check that before you
>> to hand somewhere. I don't think it's probably something that needs to be taken on notice for weeks on end.
>> We'll do our very best to come back to you as quickly as we can
>> find that one. Okay. So, um the assistant minister said that the government knew in July. You're saying that you guys knew in July as well. So, did PMNC prepare or receive any briefing or any minute or any talking points on this between July and the 1st of
>> Senator, I'd just like to clarify in terms of um PMNC's knowledge of the ATO decision. We are aware of the ATO decision in late September, not July.
>> Late September.
>> Yes. Sorry. Just just to clarify. >> Right. uh in relation to um briefings provided. Well, we have uh interacted with um the Department of Treasury um over time since the RBA um first conducted uh its review to um which started two years ago in October 2024. uh any um briefings that were provided given it's already been in made in the public domain was in relation to uh ERC uh and we are unable to provide any information about our briefings for
those purposes. Right. So the prime minister said in it that he had a text from Aki on Thursday and that led to an announcement by Friday morning. What did PMNC do between the text and the