Senate Finance and Public Administration Legislation Committee, , 2:52:29 to 2:58:05
After acknowledging the work of the landscaping team, the discussion shifts to cyber security risks associated with public Wi-Fi and the non-provision of SIM cards for parliamentary iPads and laptops.
Topics: National security, Government IT systems
Speakers: Senator David Shoebridge, Nicola Hinder, Jaala Hinchcliffe, Speaker 3, Senator Karen Grogan
>> Um as the chair, I might direct >> and we'll go to Senator Schub. Well,
thanks very much, Sharon, and thanks, Secretary, for the very detailed, very detailed response. I particularly like the reference to the refurbishment of two stacking timber conference chairs. I'm glad that's been addressed. Um but I also just want to acknowledge the um can I just give a particular um vote of gratitude to the landscape team um who who I don't know about you but the work they do in bringing that sort of nature and color into the place. It it lifts the place and um I know my me and my team are very grateful for the work. If you could pass that on to them.
>> Thank you so much Senator. I will pass that on. I suspect they are not watching because they are out either mowing the lawns or pulling out the weeds or doing something like that. They are quite phenomenal in the work they do and I will pass on your thanks.
>> And Senator Schub, if I might add, one of the staggering um numbers that's in the DPS annual report is they put in 6,000 almost 6,000 new plants this year. >> Yes. And I think in addition to everything else,
>> I think we've all noticed and we're all grateful for it. A little bit of nature in and around Parliament um I think is good for the soul and can again pass on could I ask about um device security? One of the uh we're all contemplating more deeply um security and appropriate security following the appalling attack on Dr. Haines. But one of the things we are constantly told, senators and members alike, is that when we take our device out into the world, the lap that the iPads and laptops you give us, that we should not connect them to public Wi-Fi. We're repeatedly told that. >> Yet, when we're out in the public, we're at an airport, we're um at a hotel, um we're not given SIMs for any of these devices. Um, how do you expect us to do the work without a SIM? Um, in those circumstances,
>> Senator, one of the things that we do encourage all parliamentarians to do is that you can hotspot off your DPS issued phone to be able to connect to your iPad. Um, that's often what um, colleagues across the public service, including at senior levels, do
>> your your phone is your you're you're responding to model phone calls. Your phone's got a low battery. um you're concerned that you know you you've got you're trying to connect multiple devices, you can't connect multiple I have in engagements with DPS um asked why you don't provide basic SIMs um for data exchange for a reasonable amount of data to avoid this. Um, and again I come back to this point. Why why why isn't there the provision of basic SIM cards with data to prevent this happening?
>> Senator, I'll pass to Mr. Web, but I also believe that this is actually covered off in the ICT allocations policy so that it provides parliamentarians with choice as to what they can and can't select to be able to make their work more efficient.
>> Yeah. But but I I want to be clear. If we're given iPads and laptops and they have SIM capacity um given um all of the other pressures on us um all of the other um workloads that we have the complexity often of dealing with emails, WhatsApps, phone calls etc. This should be made secure and simple and the way of making it secure and simple is to provide some SIMs so that we have secure communications. We're told that going through public Wi-Fi can lead to us being tracked and our data [clears throat] being accessed.
>> So, Senator, we will go back and have another look at what's in the ICT allocation policy. Also have a conversation with the Department of Finance that provides us with the finance in order to be able to provide these services.
>> And who sets the ICT allocations um policy?
>> Uh the ICT allocations policy is developed by the department, but it is a presiding officer's policy and the
seem to be in in a circular chain here. There's a I'm I'm I'm questioning the non-provision of SIM cards to provide for greater cyber security. We're told the answer lies in the ICT policy and now the ICT policy is determined by the people at the table.
>> Senator, I don't think so. I'm just wondering [clears throat] how we get out of this loop. >> A circular I don't think we're in a circular conversation. Miss Hinder just said that we would take that away and have a look at it. we would talk to department of finance in relation to funding um and we will come back to you.
>> Well, when we're talking about funding, we're [clears throat] talking about uh in terms of providing cyber security, we're talking about a flea bite in the context of the Commonwealth budget. Not only has your department told us that connecting to public Wi-Fi or any nonsecure Wi-Fi is a security risk, we've been told this in briefings since the appalling attack on Dr. Haines. We've been told that by Azio, we've been told that by AFP. can this be reviewed as a matter of urgency as one way of closing a potential gap in cyber security?
>> Ten, we just said that we would. Thank you.
>> But the but what I've asked for is urgency.
>> Uh Senator, as I indicated, I will go back with our colleagues and have a look at the ICT allocations policy and discuss with the Department of Finance. I'm happy to say I'll do that as a matter of urgency.