Senate Finance and Public Administration Legislation Committee, , 2:13:02 to 2:22:38
The Department of Parliamentary Services outlines progress on the 189th Privileges Report recommendations and draft principles for protecting parliamentarian data.
Topics: Parliamentary privilege, Privacy
Speakers: Jaala Hinchcliffe, Hon Jane Hume, Senator Karen Grogan, Anthea Harris, Unknown Speaker, Ms Anthea Harris
Welcome to Miss John Hitchk, the secretary and other officers of the Department of Parliamentary Services. Um, welcome to Miss Jackie Curtis, the thank you for your patience. I know we're running a little late. Um would you care to make an opening statement?
>> I just have a a few um quick remarks to make if that's okay. Chair, I'm conscious of time. Um Jala Hinchcliffe um secretary of the department of parliamentary services. Um I would like to add to the words of my parliamentary department colleagues um Miss Reinhardt and Mr. pie um and express the deep sadness of the Department of Parliamentary Services in relation to the attack on Dr. Helen Haines and to express um that our thoughts and prayers are with her and her family. Our role as the Department of Parliamentary Services is to provide services to parliamentarians and to parliamentary departments to support our great Australian democracy. um and we um have felt shocked and saddened by the events of last week. I'd also like to just um quickly um express my gratitude um to the great work of our outgoing clerk, Mr. Pi. Um I have known uh the cler for many many years and worked with him when he was the deputy cler and now with him as the cler. Um and I am often I often say that there is nowhere that has the collegiality that is shown in the parliamentary the parliamentary service and that is be because the four parliamentary service departments work so closely together to provide services to parliament and to parliamentarians. Um Mr. Pi has been a great friend and a great source of advice. uh he will be well um well missed um by all of us and I pass on his congratul our congratulations from DPS on his imminent retirement. Thank you chair.
>> Thank you very much. Um Miss Curtis, would you care to make an opening statement?
>> Uh thank you. Um, I would just like to concur with my colleague Charlie Hinchcliffe about the um, condolences and uh, the regrettable circumstances that have afforded Helen Haines and just say that we across the service are thinking of her and her family. Um, that's all I have to say. Senator,
>> thank you very much. Um, and a warm welcome to you. Um, we will go to Senator Hume.
can I ask Miss Hcliffe has the have the presiding officers in both clarks settled the draft principles that are required by recommendation one of that report?
>> Uh Senator Yes. as um the uh evidence that was just given by the cler uh during his hearing. Uh I worked together with both the clerks to draft a set of principles as was set out in the recommendations from the committee that then went to the presiding officers um for them to review. I then wrote to both of the privileges committees on the 11th of August to provide them a copy of the draft um statement. [clears throat] I then was received, sorry, excuse me, I've been telling my staff that I have very bad hay fever. Um, but it's turned into a cough, so it may not be. Um, but uh, I then received a letter um, from I've received correspondence from both of the um, House Privileges Committees in relation to that. Um, including a letter from the Senate uh, privileges committee on the 15th of September. I met with the chair on the 14th of October where we discussed some um some slight amendments to the draft that the uh Senate committee sent back um which I understand is going to will be considered by the Senate committee. I hope that this will be um able to be um finalized this year.
>> Right. So, we're not quite at recommendation two, which is the privileges committee's approval of the principles. Yes, that's right. >> Okay. Terrific. Can you tell me what the substantive issues are that remain and also what interim rule applies while we're waiting for that confirmation? So
the statement of um the statement of principles goes to um uh principles such as that um when uh there is a request from a third party to DPS to provide um information from uh in relation to a parliamentarian or that might include parliamentarian data. um that where that is um provided through a compulsory power um that we will work through theou processes that are already in place where there is noou process in place we will then discuss we will discuss with the clarks or ask the agency that is um issuing the compulsory power on us to speak to the clerks about a process to ensure that parliamentary privilege is protected. I note that at the moment there is still um the uh the IPSC um is still working on an MOU. Um so there there are still agencies that might provide us with a notice that don't have an MOU in place. Where there is not a compulsory power that is issued on us but a third party that is still looking for information that relates to a parliamentarian then DPS will only provide that information with the consent of the parliamentarian. And then when DPS is um is uh doing work in relation to our own staff and looking at our own um our own records that will comply with the procedures that we put in place on the 2nd of January which are called the procedure for dealing with requests for DPS employee data that might contain parliamentarian data.
Can I ask uh which uh divisions or investigators or outside council or cloud providers or forensic contractors are covered and are there uh explicit contractual obligations for those?
>> So this this relates to how DPS will deal with um requests for data that come to us. So it applies to um to everybody and as the cler has suggested in his evidence of course DPS is not the only parliamentary department that holds parliamentarian data um and that we have been particularly minded to how these principles could be applied across um the parliamentary departments.
>> Okay. So for information that's potentially potentially engaging parliamentary privilege, who is it that authorizes preservation, search, bulk extraction, transfer and review? Is it is it independently recorded and who who
authorizes that? So um under the mus um there is a process set out which is um similar for for each of them which goes to um a compulsory power being um either issued on a parliamentarian or on a third party such as DPS. Um when that occurs um there's then a process that is set out um in theUS about um the quarantining of data. So for example in the NEC in the Nakamou there's provisions for there to be um an independent um uh part of the Knack that is then doing searches before it goes to the investigators so that if there is any parliamentary data that is found or anything any data that could go to parliamentary privilege that can then be referred back to uh that can be quarantined from the investigation or it can be referred back to um the clerks and the house for advice should the um should the investigation agency want to use it.
>> Okay. And is there an audit trail uh uh that shows who access who accesses any extracted data um and whether copies are made or
>> that that would be a question for the agencies who
>> that's the individual agencies. All right. Okay. Um
>> and again I'm I'm I'm being cautious here. So I I've just spoken about the the knack that's just because I have I have knowledge of um both the knack and the AFP miu because of previous um engagements if to understand how they work in practice from the agency's perspectives. That's a question for the knack and the AFP.