Senate Finance and Public Administration Legislation Committee, , 5:30:15 to 5:39:27
Senator Little questions the NIAA on the funding breakdown for the Remote Jobs Program, specifically focusing on the $102 million allocated for administration and $25 million for evaluation and communication over the life of the program.
Topics: Employment, Government spending
Speakers: Senator Kerrynne Liddle, Ben O'Sullivan, Julie-Ann Guivarra, Shane Dexter, Unknown Speaker
>> Thank you. Well, last estimates uh it was asked about the remote jobs program and it was the prime minister's announcement [clears throat] that he was spending 950 million to create 6,000 jobs and you provided that information on noticed in question NIAA trip03 if you need the number and in that it turns out the number is actually 965 million or about $161,000 per job. So, can you explain where the extra 15 million came from?
>> Uh, Senator, I'll turn to uh I'll just see if Ben is ready. Yes, Ben.
>> Thank you for the question, Senator. Mr. O Sullivan, branch manager, remote jobs and employment programs branch. Uh so Senator I believe the stated figure that we've given previously in our kind of our general communications has been over 950 million. Uh and as you pointed out that I believe that total figure that's stated in the quans is 965 million which is yes so it's the same figure we've just been using that language of more than 950 million rather than the [snorts] specific 965 million. So it's not a change in the figure it's just a
So can you give us any guarantee we're not going to see that figure hit 100
>> Do you mean a billion senator?
>> Oh sorry billion.
>> Uh yes. So Senator the figure has remained the same. So the investment that the government's announced is that 965 million.
>> Right. Now you also clarified in that one that um 102 million of that funding would go towards administration primarily by NIAA. So that means that for each job created you're spending about $17,000 for the NIAA and a couple of other agencies to provide How do you spend that much for administration? because I'm making an assumption here that the organizations that are actually delivering the program are also charging So how much administration is happening for one single job? What's the cost of administration of one single job?
>> So Senator I think yeah I'll just grab the question notice in front of you. Um So I think it's probably useful those the figures provide so that around 965 million uh is over several years Senator. So we're talking about there's that funding for 6,000 jobs uh across the period. Uh so it's not that's not the cost in one year of managing a job that's the cost over several years of managing those jobs. So it's not a it's not an annual figure uh for the management of agreements. Uh so the agency provides a range of functions uh including so we we run and promote those grant rounds we run those assessment processes uh and then we manage all of those agreements uh throughout their life cycle.
>> Okay. So I go back to how much is administration for a single job given that you've given a $17,000 uh number here because in most worlds you set somebody up there's a higher cost and then that cost goes down. Is that's what is that what is going to
>> Uh so is that locked in >> for to your point Senator? Yes. >> Uh the department like the departmental funding per job and I think you when you look at the kind of the additional 3,000 jobs that the government announced that departmental funding in that is is less than the original 3,000 jobs announced. So there are efficiencies over time as the agency implements the program. I can probably go to kind of what that looks like out in 2930 as that reduces over time.
>> Sivan, what I want to know is what's the administration cost for a single job in
>> Senator, we can probably take that it would I think it would be best to take that on notice. I can talk to what that administration the departmental funding is in the final year of the sorry not in the final year in the out years to 2930
if you'd like. So I think what what is trying to say is that essentially if you look at the life cycle of the program um originally we were funded to provide 3,000 jobs. The government obviously agreed to the last budget that it would be 6,000 jobs. Um we have to run successive uh rounds. So there's been three rounds um of RJ conducted to date um with the last one uh in July this year. Those assessment processes obviously involve um individuals from the agency. There will be ongoing monitoring um and evaluation of the program as well. There'll be uh compliance checks that are required. There'll be uh you know work that we do to make sure that actually um the program is being administered as it's intended and all of that happens throughout the life cycle of the the program. So there'll be peaks and troughs in terms of some of that work because yes, the assessment periods happen, you know, once we've had had the new rounds go out. Um, and so uh, you know, to give you, uh, a figure which is actually reflective of the cost at any point in time, um, is probably, uh, a challenge, but we'll look at obviously what we can provide in terms of giving you a sense of what the administrative costs are.
>> Well, let me be very specific. I'm interested in the administration cost not just to the agency but to actually delivering one of these positions. And if if if I can't get an answer to that, I'll put it on notice so that I'm very I'm very clear about what I'm asking here because the number that we were given for the actual cost of this program is not the cost of that program. It's clearly going up at a significant rate. So, we want to get some clarity on what the right number is. I'll go to the next question, but I will put that one on notice so that you can answer yes >> that as I'm asking.
>> I would just though echo what um Mr. Sullivan said is the the costs actually aren't going up. Um we were provided with additional funding at the time of um budget in our appropriation for the additional 3,000 jobs which the government had committed to.
So the evidence you provided on notice also says that you spent $25 million for evaluation, consultation and communication. And for context, the bushfire's Royal Commission cost just over 330 million. How do you justify such an extraordinary level of expenditure for evaluation, consultation, and communication?
>> Thank you for the question, Senator U. Shane Dexter. I'm the acting group manager for the jobs economic development group. Um, so you're correct that the figure that we provided over the life of the program is $25 million for evaluations, consultation, and communications. That that is again not an annual figure. That's over the life of the program. What we would say is that for a program of this size and um as a point in time reference at the moment um over rounds one, two, and three, we've received around 1,150 applications. We've approved funding for um over 3,000 jobs or around sorry around 3,000 jobs across 525 projects and that's just as a point in time now. Those figures will fluctuate and change over the life of the program. So we're managing a very high number of project agreements and funding arrangements with different organizations. Um there is work that needs to go into each one of those applications to make sure that they are assessed correctly, that those funding applications are managed correctly and very importantly to make sure that we are learning from our delivery of the program so that we are improving it not only um learning at the end of the program but um learning from it and improving it through the life of the program as well.
>> So you talk about for the life of the program. So what happens after the first 965 million runs out?
No, Senator, there's there's ongoing funding for the program. Uh so the applicants can apply for funding for up to three years. Uh and then we walk work with those organizations that are successful over that period uh to work towards sustainable pathways for people in employment. Um but there [clears throat] is ongoing funding for the program. So ongoing funding for those uh 6,000 jobs. And as Mr. Dexter said that is over those supplier and evaluation costs are are over a considerable period of time from 2425 out to 2930. So we are talking about that ongoing effort around monitoring evaluation and learning to ensure that we are capturing the evidence from the program and we are assuring the program's being adjusted as needed uh to make sure it's meeting the needs of people in remote communities.
>> Okay. I'm going to be following up in the future about how you're actually transitioning people off this employment program into a real job and uh and the process that's actually going to support that. Um but I'm going to turn to the indigenous advancement strategy.