Senate Finance and Public Administration Legislation Committee [Part 2], , 2:02:18 to 2:11:52
Senators raise concerns about the preservation of heritage-listed military sites during the divestment process. The department explains the use of covenants and conditions of sale to protect the historical significance of these properties.
Topics: Land management, Public safety, Infrastructure
Speakers: Senator The Hon Katy Gallagher, Speaker 9, Matt Yannopoulos, Marisa Purvis-Smith, Unknown Speaker, Senator Karen Grogan
>> I just want to thank you for going to all the sites. Um I think you're the only Labor representative that has embarked upon
>> Peter Khalil's been going to a number of
>> He's he's been going to the community in information sessions. I'm sure about that. I know he's been down to HMS Penguin because >> uh if it weren't for him, if it weren't for his visit down there, uh the whole thing would still be devested, fully devested. Uh we're still unsure about which part of HMS Penguin will be sold off. And I know you've said in here that the capabilities uh would not be lost, but you know, the only part really you can sell down there is the Angra forest and the accommodation. And I just can't for the life of me understand why you'd want to do that and why you'd want to have eight luxury apartments looking down upon, you know, the critical work that our Navy people are doing.
>> Well, that's why it's important to go and visit so you can actually get, you know, instead of looking at a map. Um, you can actually see, you know, how the site is positioned. Um, so I was able to see the forest. I understand that the Sydney Heritage Trust Federation Trust is interested in um managing the forest or having that as part of the area that they manage on that site. And so all of those are reasonable requests for us to think
had any feedback on defense plaza Sydney and you're talking about being reasonable about this process, not trying to diminish Australia's capability. Um forces command is being split up, part of it going to Randall Barracks, which has been partially sold as well. Part of it's going to Defense Plaza Sydney. It's an office block. Very open plan. Uh have you visited there yet and taken a look at the spaces there and whether it's actually fit for purpose for the forces command going in?
>> I haven't because it's not really it doesn't fall within my responsibilities which are related to divestment of the defense state. Um so that's very much in the responsibility of the defense ministers. Um I have I did visit Ranwick barracks last week as well to have a look at that. Um there is a lot of unused land as part of that site. So
>> it's mostly contaminated
>> uh c certainly that was you know there was explained to me that there was some contamination on that site but that's not unusual for defense sites frankly. I mean many of them seem to have contamination that we will have to be considered as part of of the dovestment process
>> and um I'm going to rotate the call.
>> Can I can just just on that contamination point >> uh who's where does the liability for that land will department of finance department of defense will you be remediating the land before you sell it on or does it become you know the buyer that comes off the sale price? What do you do? How does that all work? you say I mean nearly every defense site is contaminated as you say except for defense classes any it's you know fancy who pays for that
>> so we will do the due diligence senator and then we will give options and investment strategy to the government to make decisions about how do we do that so that that could range from the project cleans the site up or it's sold as is uh with that information disclosed that though each site will have a devestment approach or a plan that will be agreed by ministers
>> and some of that's been managed now like if I think of the um Fairburn golf course out here in Canberra like you know that's part of their argument uh to me to not sell that land is because of the contamination but they still use it as a golf course so people are using the land knowingly, but you you know their argument is you can't you know dig down and start building and things like that and unsettling it. So all of those things are being considered.
>> Okay. Will will you come back to me or should I just ask one one final question? What like how's it going to work? We
>> you're over the agreed time and we are very very very far behind and we're trying to work on the priorities of your
>> I understand. I I've been here all day respectfully. Can I just ask one more?
>> I think that's an issue for you to take up with your party, not me.
>> Yeah, thank you. >> Take my time. Go for this. >> Um, conditions of sale. Will there be conditions of sale with something like Victoria Barrack Sydney? You know, they use they do use the helicopter pad for St. Vincent's hospital for hung heart and lung transfer. They use it all the time. Um, you know, will there be a condition that you know will still be able to access that there? um you know anything on the heritage when you sell these bases commonwealth heritage protections actually get lifted what are
well yes there will on those buildings there would definitely be conditions on the sale because of the heritage value of those sites
>> and on the parade grounds and the mess halls what's going to happen
>> well they're all um heritage listed and protected the parade grounds mess halls I think all of them there's some I'm trying to I think in in Victoria Barracks Melbourne, I think there's a couple of buildings that aren't heritage listed, which is a couple of later additions, but almost I think the entire block has a heritage overlay. And I think it's the same for
>> But you lose that when you sell it, right? Like the once it goes from Commonwealth to state, you're going to lose the Commonwealth protections.
Uh well again none of the decisions about who you would sell like who who would be the purchase have been taken but they will be protected.
>> You can put Senator >> well options are that you can put covenants over it but that will go to depending on what the government decides uh as to what the sale what the sale process and the use of each property is.
>> Okay. I I just want to I just want to bring to
>> but they would be absolutely be protected. they are the heritage of those buildings is very significant and they will be protected. I just, you
know, the buildings are one thing, but I just want to put on the record, just so you're aware of it, that many of these parade grounds have had the ashes of veterans, of serving members spread across them, the wives of the personnel there that have died on base. They've got plaques, there are a few plaques, many, many plaques around the rose gardens, the rose bed, around their offic's mess. There is so much history inside these messes. when they get moved across into Fence Plaza Sydney, there is going to be no mess for them in there anymore. There's no mess. There's there's virtually no gym. There's a gym for 10 people and you're going to have hundreds and hundreds of people in >> Like the whole fabric of this is going to go. I just want you to know that. I just This is the impact. This is this needs to go into your due diligence with
>> Yeah, I I have um I've certainly heard um aspects of that. Uh definitely. And I can only assure you that they will be those aspects will be protected. The parade grounds and others are have heritage overlay right now. Like I think if I'm not I might be wrong on on Sydney. I know the Victorian one has >> Sydney the parade. >> Oh I know the parade ground is but in Melbourne the entire site has a heritage overlay. >> I'm not Is that the same?
>> There are 12 and then a site. Yeah, is there any opportunity that we can save Victoria Barrett >> Please, please, please, please, can you do anything to save Victoria Barrack
Sydney? Well, the government has taken
>> at the very least
>> has taken a decision uh to divest uh a number of defense um estate facilities and both Victoria Barracks Sydney and Melbourne is included in that. But what I'm telling you is I'm meeting with people. We are doing the work. um we are con considering all the issues that are
being raised and if due diligence shows that it's not the right thing to do if the I know the feedback has come back to you I know the feedback is not good I know the internal I know the feedback is not good so if it shows if if they say to you that you are diminishing is there an opportunity to walk back on
well um the government's not reconsidering the decisions we've taken I think if that defense estate review, the independent audit in fact itself pointed out that these decisions had been kicked off for decades and had led to the issues now which is defense is spending money upgrading and maintaining facilities it no longer needs for a modern oper operational capability and we have to deal with that. Um what I'm telling you is the work that I'm doing is visiting the sites, talking to as many people as I can, being fully across um the issues that are being raised. Um but we are not reconsidering the decision about whether or not to progress with um divestment of uh these