Senate Finance and Public Administration Legislation Committee [Part 2], , 1:43:07 to 1:51:55
Officials provide a high-level update on the regulatory reform agenda and the creation of a national market. The discussion shifts to government-wide policies regarding merchant fees and credit card surcharges for departmental services.
Topics: Government spending, Procurement, EPBC Act
Speakers: Senator The Hon Jane Hume, Anna Harmer, Senator The Hon Katy Gallagher, Unknown Speaker, Claire Roennfeldt
questioning here and then one more and then I think that we will hopefully be done nearly done by finance. Yeah, we'll be done by 11. >> Um, just on the whole of government regulatory reform agenda that you gave me a little uh that we discussed a little bit earlier. Thank you for that. We were talking about the 14 different elements of that. Um, you said that you had a high level oversight of the regulatory reform agenda that was being implemented by Treasury. Um I just wanted to know whether you have a high level update on the progress of each of those reforms. I know you said that Treasury implements but um obviously this is you know there is oversight from from finance as far as regulatory reform
>> Uh yes senator. So we have uh visibility of the cash leave amendments were made nearly 12 months ago and another element of that kicks in uh later this year which is expected to uh uh streamline uh uh time frames for decisions under that legislation.
>> Yeah. So that's the one that's out for consultation now. >> Yes.
>> So the EPBC.
>> Yep. That's isn't it? Is that right?
>> Uh so I think the element you were referring to earlier was in the Treasury portfolio.
>> Yes, you're right. Sorry. You're right. All my regulatory reforms, Mr.
>> Um, so um other elements >> sorry, which one, Senator?
>> The second one is a single national market to create clear and consistent rules for Australian businesses, workers and consumers.
>> So are you referring to just the items that are within the Treasury portfolio or the whole regulatory reform agenda?
>> This is the whole of government regulatory reform agenda fact sheet. Regulatory reform to unlock productivity and economic dynamism. Dynamism. So I so
I think you're taking me to the individual items within the financial sector reform package. I don't have a breakdown of that in front of me. I do have that uh uh writ large and and I think as I said treasury can give you more information that writ large the financial sector reform uh is uh in progress that treasury [cough] is undertaking consultation on a number of elements of those. Uh treasury will be able to give you more detail on the status of individual elements. we probably have them at a higher level because they have um uh carriage of those particular reforms. >> And again that's the case throughout the entirety of the agenda. So there's a number of items within the regulatory reform agenda. We have a high level view but the relevant portfolio that is delivering those reforms can provide you with more detail on those. There are a small number that are with us.
All right. I have some questions about the reserve bank's credit card um and whole of government procurement. So as department obviously with the responsibility for whole of government procurement policies I'm wondering if there is a policy whole of government policy for negotiating merchant fees with credit >> pay to my knowledge there is not a whole of government policy on merchant fees
>> so not that I'm aware of senator the treasury has responsibility for payment systems generally Um and I'm not aware of anything in relation to the individual entities are responsible for their own banking and payment arrangements. Um and there is not um a whole of comwalth position that I'm aware of in relation to the payment of fees.
>> I would assume that the government would be in receipt of an awful lot of credit card payments and I'm not just talking about the ATO obviously. I mean there's licenses and penalties and all sorts of things that get paid with credit cards. So I'm interested in um why there hasn't been an effort to secure uh a better outcome similar to travel or to advertising or whatever it might be giving given that you know obviously we're one of the largest the government's one of the largest financial entities in the country. Is that something that has been considered?
>> I think that might be a question that might be better directed to the treasury given their responsibility for payment
that? So are they responsible for the payment of um you know penalties or fines that might be imposed by another department or a licensing fee that's imposed by another department? So
individual departments make uh are responsible for their own cost recovery and charging arrangements and make administrative arrangements to give effect to those payment systems legislation and payment systems policy within the AIO's is um within the treasury portfolio but individual entities make their own banking and payment arrangements to discharge their respective functions
>> I suppose but it is I mean it is a whole of government issue in the same way you know I think the probably the best example is travel or advertising. If there is a procurement policy that um for that applies to every department that is negotiated by finance, surely this would be up there with something that finance could negotiate.
>> There's not such a policy that I'm aware of.
>> Okay. Uh the assistant treasurer said that he and uh the treasurer um had told the ATO to continue to engage with credit card companies to negotiate lower fees. you're telling me that individual departments have to negotiate individual Do you have a list of the arrangements across governments? Is that something that finance would have?
>> No, Senator.
>> Do you know if any departments have successfully negotiated lower fees?
>> So I think you'd have to ask each entity about what their arrangements are. Different different entities have obviously a different prevalence of accepting payments depending on the nature of their functions. Um and you would need to ask those respective departments about the arrangements that
they are making. So, home affairs said that it removed sir charges under a government directive. So, has the department of finance issued any guidance or are you aware of any guidance that has been issued from your from you guys or from the treasury or from the department of prime minister and cabinet on how it needs to respond to the search charge ban?
>> It's not something that finance has had carriage of. It's it's a matter for treasury.
Um so what payments does finance in its portfolios accept by card? Does it have fees, charges, licenses, applications?
>> So we have very few services in that space. It might be um some of my colleagues can assist with that.
>> Uh so Amy Fox assistant secretary of governance and resource management finance doesn't accept any payments by
>> No payments at all. Okay. All right. has the department done any assessment on the impact of small businesses, on people in hardship, on people rely on credit cards for cash flow or who might lack other payment options? Is that something that finance would do? was the minister I should ask minister, were you briefed on on the on your department's approach to this prior to the announcement?
>> um there was certainly uh some discussion and I think the assistant um had written to ministers about where you know the the work that the reserve bank was doing uh and so that had gone through the normal processes.
>> Okay. I would have thought that this would be an area that would be absolutely ripe for government procurement. I mean it sounds sort of kind of obvious. Well, there's sir charges clearly are, you know, a massive issue and there is elements right across government that require payments by credit card that potentially now people might not be able to use. Is it something that you might consider in the future using all of government, your whole of government responsibilities and your procurement heft to be able to get a better deal?
I I don't think it Look, this work has been led by the Treasury. Um, it's got significant impacts at the ATO level. Um but other agencies you'll have to direct questions to them.
>> Okay. Thanks. Thanks Jen Collins.