Senate Legal and Constitutional Affairs Legislation Committee, , 0:00 to 1:27:12
The committee discusses social cohesion and antisemitism in relation to Human Rights Commission awards before receiving an update on national child safety reforms and working with children checks.
Topics: Antisemitism, Child safety, Social cohesion
Speakers: Senator Don Farrell, Senator Michaelia Cash, Senator Jana Stewart, Senator David Shoebridge, Katherine Jones, Chris Collett, Senator Helen Polley, Teresa McMichael
I declare open this hearing of the Senate Legal and Constitutional Affairs Legislation Committee inquiry for the 2026 27 supplementary budget estimates. Uh I begin by acknowledging the traditional custodians of the lands on which we meet today and I pay our respects to their ancestors and elders past and present. I extend this respect to all ainal and tourist island people who are joining us today. Before we begin uh our estimate session, I'd like to speak on behalf of the committee in sending our thoughts to our colleague, the member for India, Dr. Helen Haines, MP, her family, her team, and her community as she continues to recover in hospital. The attack against Dr. Haines on Monday was horrific. I know we have all come back to this place distressed and in shock at what has happened to our colleague and our friend. Dr. Haines is much loved as a colleague here, as a strong advocate for her community back in Indai and indeed around the nation as a fierce participant in our democracy. Contributions were made in the House of Representatives today from 10:00 a.m. and the committee will suspend to enable senators to attend the first of these statements as a mark of respect for Dr. Haines. I note investigations are underway by Victoria Police, the AFP, and AIO. And I ask senators to please be mindful during these proceedings. Dr. Haines is known to all of us as a person of integrity and someone who conducts public debate in a robust but respectful manner. As chair, I'll be especially taking this this spirit on board through our hearings. And I'm sure my fellow senators will join me in this. Now it feels odd to just go into my script uh after making that statement uh but into the Senate estimates proper. The Senate has referred to the committee the particulars of the proposed expenditure for 2026 27 for the portfolios of home affairs and the attorney general and other related documents. These are supplementary budget estimates proceedings and the outcomes to be heard during today's proceedings are from the attorney general's portfolio. The committee has set Thursday 5 November 2026 as a date by which written questions or notice are to be provided to the secretariat. The committee has also decided that answers to written questions on notice should be returned to the secretariat by 5:00 p.m. Thursday the 17th of December 2026. Understanding order 26, the committee must take all evidence in public session. This includes answers to questions on notice. I remind all witnesses that in giving giving evidence to the committee, they are protected by parliamentary privilege. It is unlawful for anyone to threaten or disadvantage a witness on account of evidence given to a committee and such action may be treated by the Senate as a contempt. It is also a contempt to give false or misleading evidence to a committee. Officers and senators are familiar with the rules of the Senate governing estimates hearings. If you need assistance, the secretary has copies of the rules. The Senate by res by resolution in 1999 endorsed the following test of relevance of questions at estimates hearings. Any questions going to the operations or financial positions of the departments and agencies which are seeking funds in their estimates are relevant questions for the purpose of estimates hearings. I remind officers officers that the Senate has resolved that there are no areas in connection with the expenditure of public funds where any person has a discretion to withhold details or explanations from the parliament or its committees unless the parliament has expressly provided otherwise. The Senate has also resolved that an officer of a department of the Commonwealth shall not be asked to give opinions on matters of policy and shall be given reasonable opportunity to refer questions asked of the officer to superior officers or to a minister. This resolution prohibits only questions asking for opinions on matters of policy and does not preclude questions asking for explanations of policies or factual questions about when and how policies were adopted. I particularly draw the attention of witnesses to an order of the Senate of 13 May 2009 specifying the process by which a claim of public interest immunity should be raised. Witnesses are specifically reminded that a statement that information or document is confidential or consists of advice to government is not a statement that meets the requirements of the 2009 order. Instead, witnesses are required to provide some specific indication of the harm to the public interest that could result from the disclosure of information or the document. I remind senators of their obligations under the behavior code for Australian parliamentarians to treat witnesses with dignity, courtesy, fairness, and respect. As chair, I'll be particularly vigilant in ensuring the cultural safety of First Nations people and culturally racially marginalized groups during these Officers called upon for the first time to answer a question should state their full name and the position and their position for the handard record and witnesses should speak clearly into the microphones which seems it's not going to be an issue with these extra-l large Um the committee's proceedings today will begin with the attorney general's I now welcome senator the honorable Don Farrell representing the attorney general. I also call officers from the attorney general's department in relation to the cross portfolio and corporate and general matters. Minister, would you like to make an opening statement?
>> Oh, thank you for that uh opportunity. Um Senator, look, I probably should say something about Helen Haines. Um Helen uh and I got to know one another. um as she was u very actively uh prosecuting the uh uh the case on behalf of the procco um makers in the the King Valley. Uh and she was a very forceful advocate for her local um community and we had many many meetings. Um um my wife is very good friends with her husband uh Phil. Um and so um just on behalf of us personally just wish to wish um Helen, you know, a safe and speedy recovery and uh let the family know that we're uh thinking of them and uh keeping them in our prayers.
Thank you, uh, Minister. I understand Senator Cash has got a short comment.
>> Yes. And could I just also on behalf of the coalition, uh, acknowledge Senator, uh, Helen Haines, and in particular, our thoughts and prayers are with her. Uh, we wish her a speedier recovery, but also her staff, her family, and her community at this time.
>> Thank you, Senator. Senator Shage.
>> Uh, thanks, Chair, and um on behalf of my party, too, but and my colleagues. Helen is considered a friend of many of us. It's been absolutely shattering seeing what happened to Helen. Um, and to to Helen, to her family, and to all of her team who somehow or other are picking themselves up to continue to do the public service that they do in the face of the horrific attack on Helen. Um, they have our fullest possible love and support and regard at this point. And um and we just hope that we will see Helen come back >> to be the community advocate um the voice of decency and principle and the bloody tough fighter for her community that she's proven herself always to be. Our thoughts are with her.
Miss Jones. I understand you've got an opening statement.
>> Um thank you, chair. I also just wanted to acknowledge uh the horrific attack on um uh uh the member for Indie uh Dr. Helen Haines. Um and uh it was an absolutely shocking event. Um this department has engaged extensively with Dr. Haines uh in her capacity as being the deputy chair of the parliamentary joint committee for the national anti-corruption commission. Uh so on behalf of everyone in the department uh I express our strongest support to Dr. Haines, her family, her friends, her community, and to everyone who's worked with her here in this parliament. Thank
>> Thank you. Uh and just checking you're okay for us to go to questions now. >> Yeah.
>> Yes. Yes. Senate just chair.
>> Uh and we'll begin with Senator Cash.
>> Uh thank you very much. Uh, Minister, does the Albanesei government believe that the use of the phrase globalize the Interard is acceptable?
the issue of specific terms I guess would be the subject. I'm you know happy to raise the issue with the uh the the attorney general. Um from my own um point of view um Senator I have um been a strong supporter of the state of uh Israel. Um I continue to be a strong supporter of the right um of Israel to uh to exist to the extent that that term may sort of imply um the uh the destruction of Israel. Of course, um uh we do not support um uh that uh that suggestion. Um the government believes that the way forward in the Middle East and nothing nothing is ever easy in the Middle East, but the way forward in the Middle East is to give uh recognition to both um the right of Israel uh to exist within safe borders and have a the safety of its uh of its community, but also uh that The um people of Palestine have um the Palestinians have also um the right uh to have their own state and live within uh within safe borders. Um there's there's no easy solutions in the Middle East, I'm afraid. Um, Senator Cash,
>> that is not the question with all
>> No, no, no. I understand it's not the question, but I'm trying to sort of put the question into perspective. Um, if you know, if things were as easy, you know, as as banning one saying or another, well, that that would be really good. But, um, the Middle East is a um a really difficult issue to um uh to resolve. There's a very good book by Simon Sebang Montafior on the history of Jerusalem. Um, and it reflects all of the issues that have taken place over 5,000 years um in that uh in that part of the world. um um to the extent that Australia can contribute or contribute to um resolving and helping to resolve issues, we we want to do that. Um we want to do that in a in a careful um way um and in a way that reflects the rights of all of the people in the Middle East to safety and uh and security.
Senator Cash, before you ask your next question, we've just had media join us in the room. I'm just checking with the committee that it's okay for them to
>> uh subject to the normal rules. >> Subject to the normal rules obviously is off limits.
>> Yep. That's completely fine. Thank you. Sorry, Senator Cash, you've got the
>> Um, Senator, is the government committed to taking the strongest form of action here in Australia against anti-semitism?
>> Yes.
>> Thank you. So, Minister, is the Albania government aware that the Australian Human Rights Commission has nominated a Mr. Ethan Floyd as a finalist for their young people's award?
>> I'm I'm not particularly aware of that, Senator. I'm >> uh Senator, understand this is not my direct
I understand that you're here representing the attorney general.
>> No, no, no. I understand that too.
Um, Secretary, is your department aware that the Human Rights Commission has nominated Mr. Ethan Floyd as a finalist uh for their young people's award?
>> Uh, Senator, yes, I am aware of that.
>> You are aware, Secretary, when did you become aware of this?
>> Um, I think it would have been in the course of late last week.
>> Late last week.
>> Uh, I I couldn't tell you with the exact precision, but I think I think during
you were made aware of this, who made you aware of this?
some, uh, well, it was from within the department. So, an officer within the department,
>> your department, the I think it was in
the in the context of, uh, just um, uh, a general discussion around the human rights commission and preparing for estimates.
>> Okay. And um what was your reaction when you found out on behalf of the government that Mr. Ethan Floyd has been nominated as a young people's finalist
Senator, uh I had not heard of him before that so I had no visibility of his background. uh and um uh so just on the face of it uh I didn't really have a a strong view cuz I wasn't really aware of him. Okay.
>> Are you now aware of his background?
>> Well, I understand to the extent that I believe uh he was on uh the the flatillaa um I'm not quite sure the exact language to
describe it. the global simud flatillaa that the United States has condemned as a pro- kamas initiative um
>> thank you senator she bridge
>> I think that is correct yes
>> the same person that has been listed as a that was listed as a speaker at a public forum in Darlington on the 5th of May this year to give a speech and I quote titled led why it's right to say globalize the antifard organized specifically to oppose the New South Wales government's proposal to prohibit that phrase. Was that brought to your attention?
>> No, it wasn't, Senator.
>> No. Okay. So, that's the first time today at this hearing that you have heard of that?
>> Yes, Senator.
>> Okay. Um, did your department provide any advice to the AHRC before Mr. Flood was nominated about his nomination.
>> Um, uh, Senator, I I would need to confirm this, but I don't believe we are normally consulted by the Australian Human Rights Commission in relation to who they nominate for their awards.
>> If you could confirm that for me, when you found out that um, Mr. Flood was part um of the flatillaa. Did you raise any issues with the human rights commission that this may actually contribute to fear within the Jewish community in Australia that someone of this nature was being celebrated for his stance?
>> Senator, I have not engaged with the commission in relation to the nomination.
>> Okay. Did you raise this matter with the attorney general or her office?
uh not with the attorney general. Um I just need to check. Uh not with the office. No.
>> So I'm becoming aware of Mr. Flood's participation in the flatillaa that as I said has been described by the United States, one of our key allies, a five eyes partner as a pro- Hamas initiative. you did not think to take it upon yourself that given the minister's statement that the government in fact was a one-word response to my question is committed to taking the strongest form of action against anti-semitism in Australia in particular given that last December 15 people of Jewish um religion were slaughtered on Bondi Beach. You did not think perhaps I should raise this with the attorney general of Australia?
No, I didn't uh raise it with the attorney general, senator.
>> Okay. So, what action did you take post finding this out?
>> Uh I have not taken any action, senator, >> The human rights commission is an independent entity and the nomination of awards is a matter for the human rights commission.
>> Yes, it is. You're also secretary of the attorney general's department. You have a minister sitting next to you uh that sadly is actually part of a government upon which in December last year 15 Jewish people were slaughtered on Bondi Beach. you head the department in which the minister has said is committed to taking the strongest form of action against anti-semitism in this country and that is the appropriate response obviously from the minister and yet as the secretary of the attorney general's department you did not think to take it upon yourself if nothing else to at least raise this with the attorney general herself
>> no I did not senator
>> thank you Senator Cash I'm going to to share the call and I I'll come
>> I will come back to this line of questioning.
>> Thank you very much Senator She.
>> Uh thank you chair. I just might um uh I I assume secretary you you've received some information about the nomination about Ethan Floyd.
>> Um yes um just from uh on their website
>> and I I'll just read the nomination just to put context to the questions at Senator Cash's point. Ethan Floyd is a 23-year-old activist, community organizer, and law student. committed to advancing equality, dignity, and justice. Since joining the strike school strike for climate movement as a teenager, he has advocated for human rights across a range of issues, including First Nations justice, housing, racial equality, and LGBTIQA plus inclusion. Ethan supported the campaign for an Aboriginal and toouristr islander voice to parliament and participated in the 2023 National First Nations Water Roundtable at the Australian National University. He is a director of the tenants union of New South Wales and Democracy and Color, a national racial justice organization at the University of Sydney. Ethan successfully advocated for free menstrual products across campus and as an elected fellow of the Senate, promoted investment practices aligned with human rights standard standards. In April 2026, Ethan joined the glo global Samud Flotilla to Gaza and has spoken publicly about his experiences. He continues to advocate for Palestinian freedom, dignity, and self-determination. Um, that's the details in the award from the Australian Human Rights Commission.
>> You also candidate for New South Wales.
>> That's the details in the Human Rights Commission nomination. Um, had you had that in front of you? >> No, Senator. And I think it's um incredibly important for context for Senator Cash's um fairly extraordinary start to these um round of Senate estimates. And I'll just also for the record um has Australia ever joined Donald Trump and his spokespeople in his declarations, his outrageous declarations about the Simud Flatillaa? Has the Australian government ever adopted Donald Trump and his administration's characterization of the
>> Senator, I'd really have to refer that to um uh the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade. I I I don't have direct visibility of um the position on
that. Minister, um, Donald Trump doesn't determine Australia's response to matters such as Samud Flatillaa and Senator Cash has put, you've put forward Donald Trump's characterization. Your government doesn't simply follow, as Senator Cash suggests, Donald Trump's
>> We we disagree with Donald Trump on many things. Um, Senator For sure I can >> go through just in my trade portfolio all of the areas in which we
>> discuss that Minister >> don't do that please.
>> Oh, cutting me short like that. >> Senator Schub so early in proceedings is a little bit unfair.
>> I'm asking as an act of curiosity. I
I have to say Senator um Schubbridge I'm not um especially familiar with this um area. Um I do say that there are many things which our government uh disagrees with um uh President Trump. Um, of course, there's going to be an election in a couple of weeks time in the United States, and we'll see how many Americans themselves disagree with some of the policies of um of President Trump
>> and perhaps Senator Cash >> and and some of the policies presented by Senator Cash as well. But, um, could
I could I just >> Senator Cash is much closer to President Trump than
>> I I suspect that's right. Um uh Minister, are you aware that the Simud Platillaa's purpose was to bring food and medicine and critical supplies to the people of Gaza who were facing mass starvation um and some of the most appalling uh material conditions possible as a result of the blockade by the state of Israel and the IDF? Are you aware that that was the purpose of the
Sumudilla? Look, I sort of think I answered my um response to that question in particular in general terms when I answered um Senator Cash's issue. Um you know, our government believes in uh a practical outcome uh to resolve the dispute between Israel and um the Palestinians. we believe uh in the right of Israel to exist within um safe borders. I've just had the pleasure of rereading uh Kershaw's book on on Hitler and the the shocking um treatment of the Jews during World War um two.
>> Minister, anybody draw you back to my question, which is about the
>> Well, well, I'm I'm trying to put it in perspective. Um uh Sander Schubbridge, this this is not a one event situation. There are multi- facets to the issues in the in the Middle East. Um obviously getting, you know, um ensuring that people in Gaza um receive adequate medical attention is is an important uh an important issue. Um but um the role that the federal government can play in this is not to exacerbate issues in the Middle East but to try and bring the parties together to the extent that a country like Australia uh can do that. Um we want to see peace in the Middle East. We want the um Israelis to be able to live within safe uh borders and not um have their uh people attacked uh the way they were um on October 7 a couple of years ago. Uh we also want the right of the Palestinians uh to also live within safe uh safe borders to to to be protected. That's the role I think Australia can play. That's the role that our government wants Australia to play and to the extent that we can influence world events um that is the role that we're going to play.
>> All right. Thank you, M. Moving to another issue. Um, Secretary, have you sought any briefings from the federal court about the most recent um, evidence of serious data breaches involving the offshoring of transcripts that appear to have predated the what I would describe as the VIQ um, data breaches um, but appears a decade.
>> Um, Senator, I I can provide information on that. I I do note that's in the justice uh and community group uh part of this hearing um uh not cross portfolio but uh I do have information to provide.
>> All right. Um I had given that these matters may only may not only cut across one court one court or one agency but may cut across multiple agency data breaches. Um, have you have you asked the agencies that are within um your department's responsibility to review their data security as to whether or not they have also potentially breached people's data security, government's data security by offshoring data given the experience that we now see from the federal court and it appears the family court and the what was the federal circuit court.
>> Thanks, Senator. Um we we have um in certainly engaged on this issue specifically as well as generally around
>> I'm sorry I'm having trouble hearing you.
>> Sorry. Um uh we have uh engaged with agencies. I'll ask my chief operating officer uh uh to come to the table to talk to um communications with portfolio agencies um uh because uh there I think there are a range of different agencies that have used um transcription services uh over
just for context, um, Secretary, if I could indicate that the evidence that appears now to be in the public domain was that in 2014, a former Oscript national manager made public interest disclosures in relation to the family court, the federal court, and the AFP about the offshoring of sensitive data. And it appears nothing has been done. It's my understanding all three of those agencies were within your department at
I >> think that's correct. Um, are you able to assist?
>> Uh, Chris Collett, Deputy Secretary of Justice and Communities. Your question, Senator, goes to the Oscript matters in 2012 to 2016. That's what you're referring to.
>> Yes. Although I had 2014, but you've obviously pushed it back to 2012. So um yes it's the same matter
>> broadly the the the right dates. Uh yes we have sought uh information from both uh the federal court of Australia entity and from the FCFCA. Uh I'm very conscious Senator uh of the independence of the courts but we're also very conscious of the importance of information security. Um and so the department has sought some additional information from the courts to which they have provided that very recently. We're considering that now and may we'll have some further questions.
>> All right.
>> Thank you. I'm I'm sure Senator She looks forward to coming back to those questions because I'm now due to rotate the
>> very much look forward to coming back to
those. >> Thank you very much, Senator Schub. Senator Polley.
>> Uh thank you chair. Good morning everyone. Uh last estimates the department actually provided uh an update on the work being undertaken to reform working with children checks. Uh following commitment to action through the standing uh council of attorney generals uh the federal government invested some $ 37 million into it. I was wondering if we could get an update on the progress in those areas.
>> Um thank you Senator. Again technically that falls within the justice and community group um uh area. Um it uh it does include involvement um engaging through SCAg uh and that uh discussion around SCAG comes up in cross portfolio. So I'll I'll I'll be guided by the chair um but we can answer those questions now or um under justice and community group
>> would be helpful if we could do it now.
>> Okay. Um then I'll ask uh Mr. Klette and his uh colleagues to answer that.
>> Thank you Senator. Could I ask you just to repeat the question?
>> Yes. At the last estimates, we got an update update on the progress and after the commitment and the agreement by the council of AGS. Just wanted to know where we're at now, what the progress is. There was some $37 million invested by the Commonwealth government into it. >> um I think it's very relevant um with what was on the news this morning. If you could give us an update on that
progress. No, thank you, Senator, and thank you for um your acknowledgement on the issues in the the media today. Uh child safety remains an incredibly important priority for the government and and for the department. We've continued to progress um the working with children check reforms under the standing council of attorneys general uh agreement. Uh at a high level, uh there were key policy decisions put to uh first law officers at their meeting on the 31st of July. uh these go to the higher order policy and legislative changes that are needed across states and territories uh to achieve ultimately national recognition of working with children checks. I'll provide some high level comments and I'll ask my colleague Miss McMichael to to unpack that in further detail. But it goes to the policy frameworks around exclusion criteria, the sorts of criminal uh history offenses and charges that are relevant. Uh policy around uh risk assessments, how working with children check screening units uh standardize their practices around how they assess the risk of you or me or any other working with children checkholder. Um and then policy decisions around uh information sharing between and within jurisdictions. uh the standing council approved all of the uh matters put before them and then there's a range of further policy reform work we're doing now uh and IT work with the Australian criminal intelligence commission Michael do you want to build on that
>> thank you Theresa Mcichael acting assistant secretary of the national office for child safety uh so in July SCAG agreed so some of the milestones that SCAG um met in at the July meeting was they agreed to a national baseline of serious criminal offenses which automatically exclude or disqualify a person from holding and working with children check. Uh they also agreed to a national uh national baseline standards for risk assessment processes. So that's the types of information that need to be checked uh for every applicant as well as how that risk should be assessed and um what information needs to be continually monitored throughout the working with children check. They also agreed to the different types of information that must be shared uh within uh and between jurisdictions to support those risk assessments. Uh and now that those were the policy settings and so now they're working um on how that information will be shared and then early next year they will focus on uh making the policy operational and legislative changes within their jurisdictions to uplift to those
baselines. If I can add um Senator Consciously, you have a long interest in this uh very important area of policy reform. I'd like to put on record uh the department's acknowledgement and thanks of our state and territory colleagues across the justice departments and the community services department's responsibility for working with children check sits under different ministers and different agencies across the states and territories. Um, as both M. Mcichel and I noted, it is a very complex area of policy, legislative, and IT reform. And it's a real example of um, commitment across all levels of government to shift that uh, and improve uh, safety and protections for for children in Australia. And I'd like to record my thanks to our state and territory colleagues.
>> Yes, I agree with your comments there. In relation to the IT, where is that process up and what's the time frame for having that fully implemented?
Uh so under the SCAG agreement so we have the um the national continuous checking capability which is being built by the Australian criminal intelligence commission that uh they've built a pilot which became adoption ready at the end of last year and now the ACIC is working with jurisdictions to support them to on board to the pilot. Um jurisdictions are under the SCAG agreement jurisdictions are to make best endeavors to onboard to the pilot by the end of this year. There are a number of jurisdictions that we are expecting to on board shortly. Um more information to come to add to that.
The national continuous checking capability uh provides at the pilot level uh additional access to comwalth uh information to state and territory screening units. When it's fully operational uh it will provide that national service across all six million uh working with children shareholders. But importantly, it'll then be available for governments to use in other forms of screening uh where you have work forces servicing vulnerable Australians, whether that's disability, age care or so on. So the applications are really quite uh broad. Uh I'm also conscious your question uh went to the the funding that government provided through the myo process last year. Also want to note for the committee's awareness the research uh that was funded by the Australian Institute of Criminology to better understand uh patterns of behavior from perpetrators and the intersection with working with children screening. Um we know a lot but the need for the evidence base to be built uh is critical uh and the institute's uh upcoming research will be really important in informing ongoing reforms that states and territories can progress around best targeting risk assessments.
>> Have we got a timeline that you're working towards so that parents can have confidence that those working in areas where children are vulnerable won't be able to move from state to state and jurisdiction from jurisdiction.
>> Absolutely. So, as M. Michael noted, the standing council's agreement that uh attorneys general approved in November 2025 is publicly available on the department's website. The agreement is quite specific, has very particular time frames that attorneys general have set uh for all governments to stage these uh reforms through and some of those are already delivering. So, the the first priority around you would have heard the attorney talk publicly around banned in one, banned in all that a a decline in the ACT immediately causes a decline in uh in Western Australia. uh all jurisdictions have now moved legislation uh since we last appeared before this committee. The West Australian Parliament's passed legislation uh in WA to uh provide for that. Uh so those protections are already rolling out across this country.
>> Thank you and thank you for the work. It's not an easy feat bringing everyone together. So congratulations and thank you. >> Thanks Chief.
>> Thank you very much Senator Holly. Senator Cash.
>> Uh thank you. If I could turn to the nomination of Ethan Floyd uh for the Australian Human Rights Commission Award, Young People's Award, and I am going to table the nomination. Thank you very much. Um Secretary, was it brought to your attention uh when you were being informed of the nomination of Mr. Flood that he is a Greens candidate uh for the next election for the seat of Cessnok in New South Wales.
>> So before sorry Secretary before you answer I understand Senator Cash you nomination you're putting that to the >> Yes. Thank you very much that it's tabled.
>> Thank you very much and I'm happy for you obviously. So sorry secretary what was your answer?
>> So my answer is no. I was not aware of
that fact. So, you've only just Is my question the first time that you've become aware that Mr. Flood is a Greens candidate uh for the next New South Wales election?
>> That's correct.
>> Okay. Minister, were you aware that Mr. Flood is a Greens candidate uh for the next New South Wales state election?
>> Um no. Um, but I wouldn't expect as a South Australian Senator um, Senator Cash, I wouldn't expect to know all of the candidates in
>> No, but we're talking about a federally funded government body uh, that is putting forward uh, people for award.
>> But you're you're asking me, do I did I know that this particular person was a candidate in a New South Wales state election? And my answer to that, Senator Cash, is uh no. And I wouldn't have expected most people from Western Australia to know who the candidates were in
>> You'd actually be surprised that when people in Western Australia that I spoke to found out that this person was nominated, they actually did their research to ensure that they properly understood uh what this person had actually done. Uh, Minister, are you when this award will actually be given
>> Uh, no, I don't. Uh, Senator Cash, but I'm happy to find out for you and come back to you.
>> It's not a problem. I will, uh, provide that information to the committee.
>> Well, if you if you know the answer to the question, why are you asking me?
>> You'll understand shortly whilst I'm asking and I can assure you it is no laughing matter given the rise in anti-semitism in this country under your >> Minister, look, anti-semitism,
anti-semitism didn't begin in this government, Senator Cash. Um, anti-semitism has been a curse right around the world for a very, very, very long time, Senator Cash. You should know that. You should know that. You should know that if you understand anything about the history of Israel, anything about the uh the treatment of the Jews around the world, you will know that anti-semitism uh did not begin and unfortunately won't end uh with this.
>> No, but the rise of it in Australia to extraordinary extraordinary lengths has occurred under your government, Minister. There's
there's been plenty of times in the history of Australia when anti-semitism has been on the rise. Senator Cash, I wish it wasn't that way, but the fact of
>> how many times 15 people being on Bondai Beach.
We are going to just take a breath and just resume to the orderly way of estimates which is the asking of questions and allowing possibly a slight pause and then some a response to the questions uh without interruption. I would be grateful. >> The question Senator Cash got the call for a question.
>> Did the minister know when the Australian Human Rights Commission uh awards uh will be given out? He said he didn't. Secretary, are you aware of the
>> Please, please, Senator Cash, please complete my answer, which was I was going to find out for you.
>> No, no. And and I said I will shortly advise the committee and it will become clear as to why. Secretary, are you aware of when the awards will be handed out?
>> Um, Senator Miss Jigi has just uh pointed it out to me. So, the 10th of December.
>> The 10th of December. And um what event occurs on the 14th of December?
Obviously, Senator, it's the the one-year anniversary of the horrific events in Bondi.
>> That is correct. Um, so Minister, do you believe it is appropriate given your answer to one of my initial questions being, is the government committed to taking the strongest form of action against anti-semitism in this that a person nominated by the Australian Human Rights Commission, which is, as you know, a taxpayer funded body for an Australian human rights award, has as part of his resume the fact that, and I quote, on the 5th of May this year, he was a listed speaker at a public forum in Darlington titled Wyatt's Right to Say Globalize the Entifada organized to oppose the New South Wales government's proposal to prohibit that phrase. A person who has participated in the global Sumud flatillaa in Gaza earlier this year that as I said the United States condemned as a pro-Camas in other words terrorist initiative. a person who is a Greens candidate uh for the seat of Cesno at the next election and a person who in particular given the government statements this week of bringing down the tone who in February of last year wrote that the climate movement must become dangerous again through stronger student and union strikes, blockades and disruption. option. Does the government believe that it is appropriate given in particular when these awards will be handed down 4 days before the first anniversary of the Bondi massacre that this person should
>> Uh Senator Cash, I don't I don't think matters whether it's 4 days before the an terrible anniversary of the um shootings in Bondi or any other day. Um, the job of the federal government, I think, in these circumstances, as you just said, is to bring down the the the heat, the tone, and all of the debate, but also fight anti-semitism, not just 4 days before the anniversary, but every day. Um, I can't repeat it often enough. Um, anti-semitism is a curse. Um and uh racism in this country is is a curse. Um you trying to get a political advantage out of the terrible events in Bondai I think um is inappropriate. Senator Cash, I don't I don't think certainly in my discussions with the uh the the Jewish community, I don't think they want this to be a political issue. They want this to be the opportunity to continue to push back on anti-semitism. And I don't think trying to exploit it politically is the way to uh reduce the temperature um that uh Australian Jews now find themselves uh uh victim of. Um, as a country, we need to push back and make it clear that anti-semitism is unacceptable, as is any form of, um, racism in this country. That's the I'm sure I speak for the attorney general. Um, uh, that's her objective. um as uh as uh the chief law officer of this country, I know she does whatever she can to push back on uh on anti-semitism. This government will continue to do that. I mean, we engaged uh Julian Seagal. She had been on the uh on the IPIA board. She resigned from the IPA board to take up the role um to pro um promote the issues of most concern to the to the Jewish community in this country. We are we are doing everything we can uh in a democracy uh to push back on anti-semitism and we'll continue to do that. Senator Cash and I just think your objective of trying to exploit um those terrible events in Bondi and to blame the federal government for that I think is well it's nothing short of unacceptable Senator Cash and I wish you'd reflect uh on what you're trying to do here. Um I don't think that by seeking to exploit this issue politically, you are in fact assisting um the Jewish community in in Australia. I'd ask you to reflect on what you're attempting to do here and uh perhaps review the nature of your
questions. So, Minister, in response to that, does the government believe it is appropriate then, given your commitment to tackling anti-semitism in Australia for the federally funded body, the Australian Human Rights Commission, to nominate for celebration, a person who believes it is all right to utilize the phrase in Australia, globalize the enter.
>> And thank you. Just before you respond to that, Minister, I'm going to indicate that once we've concluded this response, we will suspend as I indicated at the beginning of proceedings today. Minister,
>> look, I think I've answered your question, Senator Cash.
>> Thank you very much. Uh, we will now suspend and we will resume at 10:30 a.m.