Senate Legal and Constitutional Affairs Legislation Committee, , 5:47:22 to 5:54:04
Officials address the underreporting of transnational repression due to fear and the limitations of current support services and law enforcement referrals for affected individuals.
Topics: Human rights, AFP
Speakers: Senator David Shoebridge, Ciara Spencer
Um keeping records of the number of reports of actual or potential transnational repression that are being received by the national security hotline?
So that information would go through to the AFP as the law enforcement response.
And they don't provide the information to you? There's no data sharing in that regard. Oh, security.
We do work closely together and share information, but I don't have that data, and it would be best sought from the AFP directly.
So have you sought from the AFP any update in their numbers of transnational repression inquiries that have been raised?
Uh I haven't directly, Senator. Um I can check with the team and take that on notice.
All right. Um I think we can agree as a starting point that transnational repression is likely underreported in Australia because people are self-censoring to avoid upsetting foreign governments. Do we agree on that as a kind of common starting point?
Uh Senator, yes, and that's a lot the focus of much of our community engagement is to try and encourage community members to report and to understand that we are a safe place to be able to talk about these issues. Um at the um we have a number of uh for on countering foreign interference that I think and we look at the broad trends in reporting and what we're seeing from the community.
Well what are the trends then in terms of transnational repression, as Vencer?
Uh exactly to your point, Senator, that there is underreporting. There is fear associated with it, particularly in terms of the the potential impacts on family overseas or or um even within Australia, um, and and hence our desire to get more information out and to um provide support to the community to encourage their reporting um or at the very least provide them with some tools as to how to um how to take steps.
So what heart what what um so what supports are currently offered to an individual who comes to home affairs, goes to the community hub, comes to home affairs and would say, well, actually I'm a victim of transnational repression. You know, I've been making my position clear in relation to the politics country, and as a result of which threats have been made to my family by the government there. Or I've been the subject of you know, attacks um. And I've got concerns about my family. What supports are available to someone who comes to home affairs and says that?
So the first line of direction is to ask them to speak to the AFP or to their local police and report that as criminal offending.
Well, you see, I've, on behalf of a good many individuals who have had situations like this where they have been outward about their politics in Australia, as they're entitled to be. And each time I've referred that to the AFP, the AFP have said, sorry, can't do anything because those threats happen in another country and it's not a criminal offence. Every time. Now that that's been a uniform response. So sending people to the AFP in my experience does not assist in those circumstances. Have you had a different experience? Have people told you a different experience?
There are also elements where the harassment interference is actually occurring within Australia, and we are better.
They weren't the matters I put to you though, Ms. Spencer. We're happy to come to that.
Certainly. Look, I I think there is a real challenge when you have that offshore element. The additional support we can provide as referral to support services, guidance on personal security, the steps that they can take within government, and this is would be a matter for foreign affairs and trade. There are also conversations that I had with representatives from other countries.
Well, well, what support services?
Sorry?
You said referral to support services. In my experience, the kind of support services people are being referred to as services that are already massively over allocated. And there's there's there's no distinct home affairs funded support services that I'm aware of being provided to people in these situations. But I could be wrong. Does home affairs fund support services in this? In which case what are they?
No, Senator, we don't. We refer to broader mental health support services and welfare support services. And in the engagement with communities, we work with them for access to community relevant support.
Now, Ms. Spencer, I don't, I'm not blaming you for this because you operate in the parameters set by the government. But this exchange we've just had probably shows why matters are underreported. Because when they actually do report it, they report it, they get sent to the AFP, the AFP says they can't help. They then get sent to a website, the website sends them to generic support services like you know Black Dog or other support services, and they don't feel like things have moved one inch and they don't feel supported. This this conversation we've just had here, this exchange, um, is probably one of the reasons why it's underreported. Because when they report, nothing happens. Is that your understanding? Is that what you're hearing from Diaspora communities?
Senator, I think we are very clear that while we may not be able to take action in all cases, understanding the environment, the context, the experience helps us build understanding of the threat to be able to take action even at a broader level, if not in direct response to their personal circumstances.
Because of time, Ms. Spencer, would you mind setting out in answers to question on notice what outreach you've done, which communities you've met with when you've had the meetings, etc. Um and if you could go back, I think probably until one July of last year to get a sense of what's been happening in the space. If you think there's information before that, that would be of assistance. I'm not limiting you.