Senate Legal and Constitutional Affairs Legislation Committee [Part 2], , 16:03 to 23:47
The committee examines the establishment of the Fair Work court, including consultation processes and budget costings.
Topics: Law reform, Government spending
Speakers: David Pringle, Senator The Hon Michaelia Cash, Senator Nita Green, Senator Jana Stewart, Unknown Speaker
Uh beyond those communications that we just discussed um which were just prior to the formal announcement made public um there was a task force set up uh joint task force between attorney general's department and department of employment and workplace relations. Uh and um I'd have to take on notice precise date that they contacted us but it wasn't too long after.
>> Oh no no I want before the 23rd. before
the 23rd nothing.
>> So the first time you heard that the government was creating a new court which was actually taking away from your court was but a few minutes before the announcement was made. Is that your evidence? >> Minister, is that acceptable that the government makes the announcement of a new court but doesn't actually consult with the actual courts that are going to
be affected? Well, as you've heard this morning, I think um from questioning to the department, um the government made the decision to establish a a fair work court. Um we can take you through the reasons of that. Um and now we're going through a period of consultation um with the court with the other courts that have appeared tonight um uh to talk about what the establishment of that court will mean and how um it can be developed um you know by best practice.
Aren't those the questions you ask before you make an announcement whether or not this court is even viable given in particular the boiler makers case?
Well, look, um, uh, I don't have anything to add from what Senator Farrell said to you earlier this morning. Um, other than we advised the Chief Justice or the Chief Justice was advised before the, um, announcement was made and we can take you through the task force that's been developed.
>> I don't need to be taken through that. >> Okay. I and I didn't get all of the um evidence this morning. So, if I'm
traversing that, sorry, if you just give me one second, Senator Cash. >> Um uh I'm not aware of all the evidence that was given to you this morning, but I and don't want to repeat those answers from Senator Farrell, but of course, we can talk to you about that further.
Uh, no. I'm actually interested in the consultation with the courts, the bodies that are actually affected, those that administer justice in Australia, prior to the announcement of a new fair work court. And sadly, it would appear that uh both the federal court and the federal circuit and family court were not consulted and were merely given a quick phone call uh in relation to a significant announcement that does directly affect how they operate in a daily basis uh but a few minutes prior to the government making the announcement. Uh Mr. Pringle, has the court subsequent to the announcement uh being asked to put together any [snorts] costings or financial assessments concerning the proposed fair
>> Yes, we've had um formal requests for information um uh that uh cover a number of different topics. Yes. Um I >> I'm conscious that that process to my understanding is um deemed to be government advice material and and uh I suspect cabinet and confidence. So I probably won't be able to go into the specifics uh Senator uh but uh we've certainly been asked for specific information um uh uh about um our experience on what um a new court environment could look like. So there
have been suggestions that establishing and operating the new fair work court could cost taxpayers between half a billion and a billion dollar. Has the court prepared or received any estimate relevant to those figures and what period the expenditure would cover?
>> Uh again the the specifics of that would would be uh captured by the um cabinet confidence nature of the material. Um, Senator, I'm I'm cautious about going into into detail. Um, I think it's fair to um summarize that as as courts in this area, we have a lot of experience in how courts run, what judges need, um, volumes of filings, um, uh, the cost of setting up um, an environment for a judge or a registar both in property matters, in leases and so forth. So, um I think you you'd be safe to assume that that we have quite quite a knowledge about those things and and they uh are areas that uh no doubt anybody setting up a new court would want to to learn
>> Yeah. Because obviously if you're establishing a new court, it's not merely just appointing some new judges. It is a whole new court. And certainly it has been suggested that establishing and operating new fair work court could cost as I said taxpayers between half a billion and a billion dollars. Um is the court a part of the task force that is looking into the establishment of the new court?
>> I think as a matter of technicality we don't form part of the task force itself. When we have met with the task force my recollection is that we are listed as an attendee. Um I don't believe we have formal membership status to it but uh Mr. Collett uh earlier mentioned that there was close engagement during those meetings with the task force and I'd say that's accurate. Um obviously uh we've had a number of meetings with the task force and uh and so um they're representatives from the department of employment and industrial uh pardon me workplace relations uh representatives from the attorney general's department and representatives from our court for at least one of those meetings. I think there were representatives from the federal court in the same meeting. Okay.
Perhaps on notice, could I get the number of times since the 23rd of July, 2026, how many meetings have occurred between the court in its representative um capacity and the task force concerning the new court?
>> I can I can give you those answers.
>> Oh, that would be great.
>> I can give you the dates at the very least. Um >> uh three meetings between our court and the task force representatives. uh 21 August this year. All this year 21 August, two September and 8 September.
>> Two Sep and 8 September. Are you working towards a particular time frame for the establishment?
>> Uh that would be a matter for government. uh senator um we are providing um support in the sense of uh clarification of information how the system currently runs including how our court operates um in this jurisdiction and various other areas that we touched on before u but uh the timing the process the consultation plan um implementation is all a matter for
government. Um, has the chief justice or the court provided any written feedback? Um, in terms of the announcement,
>> uh, I wouldn't describe it as written feedback. There's been specific requested information put uh, forward by the task force uh, and uh, written responses and meeting responses have been provided.
>> Okay. Thank you, Chair.
>> Thank you for your assistance, Senator Cash. Before I go to Senator Schub, uh, I'd like to update that we are now in a position to release the Office of the Commonwealth ombbudsman, the National Student OMBbudsman also.
>> Okay.
>> Thank you very much.
>> Wow. Well done, team.
>> Senator Shoebridge, you have the call.