Senate Rural and Regional Affairs and Transport Legislation Committee, , 19:08 to 31:24
Senators question the timeline for implementing mandatory reporting of unacceptable behaviors in Victorian infrastructure contracts following a request from Minister King.
Topics: Infrastructure, Integrity, Procurement
Speakers: Hon Bridget McKenzie, Lachlan Wood, Jessica Hall, Toby Robinson, Mr. Jim Betts, Interjection
>> Well, there's no jurisdiction. No, but we are working with the regulators. So, we can take you through what we are trying to do with the regulators.
>> Yeah. So Senator um the department has been working with the department of employment and workplace [clears throat] relations and um commonwealth regulators in this space to explore how we can improve the sharing of information um particularly on the outcome of investigations. That would obviously need to be a sort of a principles based approach because we don't want to um prejudice any ongoing investigations. Um but we have been exploring options to improve the sharing of information. Um and we met with uh DUR, the AFP, uh ASICH, ATO, Fairwork Commission, and Fairwork OMBbitsman uh earlier this month to discuss opportunities to um improve information sharing. It's a it's a work in progress. Obviously, um a number of those bodies are uh subject to um you know, confidentiality requirements or or other legislative provisions around what information they can share. Um but the goal is to look how look at how we can work together to uh improve the sharing of that
>> But AFP wouldn't know what Vic Pole or um New South Wales South Australia. They wouldn't have any intelligence
>> No, as you say, we don't have powers to compel these entities to provide us with information. So we're attempting to uh agree voluntary protocols um so that we can be as up to date as possible with any information they do opt to share with us. So my question
though goes to given um state regulators and state um agencies responsible for dealing with a lot of these allegations have no federal feeding process.
So they feed in back to their state. So we can once they're gone through their processes with the state they feed back to the state and the state can report back to us and they do but as far as I'm aware there are no um decisions made out of existing ones at this stage but we will take that on notice as we said and we will come back to you in regards to um protocols there are protocols within Vic police and AFP and things like that so we are just trying to work out what we can do in regards to getting information where jurisdictions um do have relationships and that they can share that information. And we are very conscious because of as you um are aware the number of duplications that an a number of these are reported to multiple um bodies. So they might report to Vic police but they might also report to the AFP for example. And so
>> is that captured in the reporting protocol the multiple agencies? So
>> So yes, so the number of allegations um is um a number of the bodies that they are actually reported to. So we're working through all of that. But as you
said, there's an allegation of undisclosed criminal behavior, um breaches of workplace laws, like there could be fraud, there could be multiple bodies that these would be as individual allegations be reported to. So are you informed of all of the bodies where these allegations are reported to?
>> Yes. Yes, Senator. Under the reporting protocol, when the jurisdictions [clears throat] report to the department on an allegation, they provide us with details of which bodies they have referred those
allegations to. >> And there's no feedback loop though for you from any of those bodies other than through a collaborative agreed voluntary
>> Yeah. Yeah. And to the extent that the our interlocator at state level has that information, they're obliged to um provide that to us when they get it.
>> And are you confident that state jurisdictions are doing what you are doing with your federal um agencies, the ATO, the AFP, etc. as you outlined. Are you confident that each and every jurisdiction that's receiving Commonwealth funding for infrastructure project is similarly uh having those conversations with their state bodies to get the feedback? Are you confident?
>> Yeah. So these this goes to uh the way in which the federal funding agreement is structured and um when we make payments under the federal fund funding agreements the recipient jurisdiction is required to attest that they've complied with the provisions of that agreement including the reporting protocols that we're discussing.
>> No I'm not going to the reporting protocols Mr. Betts, I understand that federal department is working with federal agencies around uh information sharing around these uh allegations across the Commonwealth. My question is are you confident state jurisdictions are similarly uh behaving in that way in terms of reaching into their state bodies to have a feedback mechanism uh on on the status of these
allegations? I am reasonably confident um senator because um uh they also uh need to take action at the ground level as the owner of those contracts. So yes,
>> reasonably confident, Miss Hall doesn't suggest confidence, but we'll hopefully they'll take a leaf out of your book and try and implement best practice. I just want to go to an OPD um 576 uh that I'm assuming the committee has a copy of OPD 576 that relates to the Victorian Land Transport Infrastructure in projects. Uh page 5.3 the minutes from the state and commonwealth road projects governance group meeting on the 21st of May states that and I quote mandatory reporting is of unacceptable behaviors commenced on the 1st of January 2026 with a sixmonth grace period for existing contracts. Why did Victoria not commence mandatory reporting on the 1st of January 2026, some 17 months after Minister King wrote to her state counterparts demanding immediate reporting of improper or criminal conduct?
>> Uh Lachland Wood acting first assistant secretary. Um that is something that Victoria brought in into their contracts um with their head contractors the mandatory reporting requirement. They have been reporting prior to that in accordance with our requirements and protocols. Um as you can see from the sort of reports that we have received over a number of months and going back more than 12, they have continued to report. It's just that that was a new clause specifically requiring their contractors to um also be reporting it as well. But prior to that, they've been encouraging it through um collateral around work sites um and through communications that they'd had with
their contractors. So Victoria was encouraging contractors on the big build to report criminal and corrupt behavior, but it would seem from the data that the mandatory reporting was actually required to actually get the information out of Victoria, wasn't it,
Victoria was cooperating with us throughout over the last couple of years in terms of the reporting. Um, this was just an additional measure where they explicitly put that contractual requirement onto their contractors.
>> Did other jurisdiction do it
>> I'm not aware that other jurisdictions have implemented the same provisions.
Has Queensland and New South Wales got mandatory reporting conditions in their
>> We'd have to take that on notice,
>> I thought it was only Victoria that had given them a six-month grace period. >> But you can't tell me whether it is actually a mandatory requirement across jurisdictions to report criminal conduct
My understanding is that Queensland and New South Wales have done it, but I would want to make sure that it is absolutely compulsory and when they would do it, so I will take it on
When was the department first advised of the commencement date of the 1st of January 2026 from Victoria?
>> I would have to check when we first were advised by Victoria. I don't have that
Do you have who authorized the six-month grace period for Victoria?
>> that would be a matter for Victoria,
>> You don't know.
>> Well, they're decisions for Victoria.
>> No, they are decisions for Victoria, but also you'd probably know who made the
>> I don't know, Senator.
>> Do you know Miss Hall?
>> No, I don't. Senator,
>> Who from the department sits on the state and commonwealth road projects government group?
>> Uh so I do senator uh as does uh Mr. Bourne in his capacity as the first assistant secretary usually uh and um by two of people in my team as well
>> and two so we've got lots of eyes and ears on the governance group. Was Minister King advised that mandatory reporting would not commence until the 1st of January 2026 for Victoria?
I will have to check. My recollection is that this was a public statement that Victoria made in terms of this additional requirement that they were bringing in. But we will go back and double check the sequence of that
>> that existing Victorian contracts would receive a further six-month grace
period. Well, in terms of it was a Victorian announcement that they were bringing in this requirement for all new contracts from one January. Yeah. And that existing contracts would have the six months grace period prior to it being required. But we're still being strongly encouraged to report and based on the reporting that we've received were contributing to that. Just to be
clear, the the federal funding agreement which puts the overarching obligation on the jurisdiction was signed in July 2024.
>> I was going to come to that that Mr. King actually requested this in 2024 as well.
>> She did more than request it. She embedded it in federal funding agreements. Um what the Victorians subsequently did was cascade that through their contracting chain to give even greater effect to a pre-existing
So Victoria took its time to implement the request of 2024 from Minister King.
>> No, Senator, because they were already reporting on everything. So they were doing what they were actually required.
>> A belt and braces approach has involved the insertion of an supplementary clause within their procurement contract.
So your evidence is that the mandatory reporting protocol was operational in Victoria um since 2024.