Senate Rural and Regional Affairs and Transport Legislation Committee [Part 2], , 1:05:01 to 1:18:35
Officials provide updates on the draft risk assessment for importing decrowned pineapples from India and Indonesia. The discussion covers pest management, stakeholder feedback, and the legal constraints of biosecurity risk assessments.
Topics: Biosecurity, Exports, International law
Speakers: Dr Peter Finnin, Hon Matthew Canavan, Unknown Speaker, Speaker 1
>> Okay. All right. Uh, well, there's a few questions taken on notice there. Um, I might just ask a couple of quick questions about pineapples. Uh, uh, so could I just get an update on the the status of the um uh risk assessment here on the proposed importation of pineapples from India and Indonesia?
Thanks, Senator. Yes. Um, so we have released a draft risk assessment for the risks in relation to the importation of de drowned pineapples from both India and Indonesia. Uh, that went out for a public consultation on the 16th of July. We received some requests from stakeholders to extend that. So we did extend that period which closed on the 5th of October. So a couple of weeks ago now. Uh so we are currently engaged in reviewing all of that feedback that we've received from those uh stakeholders. Um and as we work through that um that will influence um or any influence that has on the outcomes of the risk assessment we will document and provide that back um as we work through that process. I guess one thing to just clarify is this is not a new pathway um as such for drowned pineapples. We do already have uh conditions for the importation of drowned pineapples from the Philippines, Solomon Islands, Thailand, Sri Lanka and Taiwan. Um and so this assessment is essentially to look and see whether or not pineapples sourced from India and Indonesia uh whether there are any particular differences in the risk that they might pose. that might mean they either can't uh safely be imported into Australia and or whether or not different measures would need to apply.
>> So [clears throat] is that the reason the government's not doing a full biocurity import risk analysis?
>> Essentially yes, Senator. So when we undertake a bureau or when we undertake any risk assessment, we would do an analysis to to work out what is the most appropriate mechanism to undertake that risk analysis. Generally some of the guidelines for when we would undertake a a biocurity import risk analysis the regulated process are if it's a completely new pathway um or if we um believe there might be quite significant differences in the biocurity risk that um the new proposed importation would suggest. So in this particular case uh it didn't meet that threshold. Um but certainly what I um can uh commit to is that um as we work through the process of developing the final report and considering all stakeholder feedback that we will engage the members of the scientific advisory group in their capacity as independent experts to provide um a view on our risk assessment work and also a view on whether or not they feel we have appropriately
so have you already concluded that the risks from India Indonesia are not dissimilar to those other countries
worked through the risk risk analysis um our work indicated that the pests um potentially on a pathway from India and Indonesia were not dissimilar to the pests on other pathways. Uh and so the draft report does currently propose that provider measures are appropriately implemented that that risk can be man managed to our appropriate level of protection. We are aware of additional views particularly around um some bacterial rot pathogens about whether or not perhaps strains that are present in other parts of the world may be different to the strains that are present here in Australia. And we will give that information very careful
>> Right. And I was going to get to that, but [clears throat] so if if that if if that information comes to light, can are you still able to reflect on the decision not to do a bureau and go back and do a full bureau? Is this a set and forget or can you actually go back and reassess that if there's new information come to light?
>> Um certainly I think that's that's a potential option we could do. Um I suppose my my reflection on that would be that um the process of the risk assessment the work that we do um the engagement with expert experts is not very different between the two processes. The regulated process essentially provides some additional um guidance around time frames and other things. Um but certainly at a point in time if we feel the risk is significantly different that is certainly an option that we could we
Okay. Um but without doing the full bureau, does it remove the option of an inspector general of biocurity review?
>> Um the bureau process has that enshrined in the regulatory process. But certainly we could engage um the inspector general of biocurity and get her view on the work that we have done.
>> Okay, that's that's just an option under this process, not required correct as it would be under a bureau. Okay. How many submissions have you received on the
I have it somewhere. I believe it was um about six submissions that we received on the draft. Um and we will obviously take careful time to consider that not a specific timeline other than um our expectation and look it will depend a little bit on um what the stakeholder feedback indicates and whether or not we need to further work but my expectation is that this is something that we would look to be finalizing in the first half of uh next calendar year.
>> Okay. Thank you. Um, one complaint I've received from growers is that uh the uh the the access they have now to chemicals that can respond to these diseases has changed in recent years. And uh uh so while there may have been assessments done in the past that said this was okay, uh they would really struggle to respond to any outbreak of diseases now. Is that something you're
factoring in? um not in the in the consideration of the biocurity risk as I've sort of had a conversation with Senator McDonald earlier we are somewhat constrained in what we consider in a biocurity risk assessment has to be gerain to the pest and diseases and those particular risks not necessarily on other factors that might influence how uh we might respond but certainly in in a broader sense we are always interested in that feedback and we'll consider it carefully
>> okay so just and maybe this is a general point not just regarding pineapples and I wasn't here for the banana discussion I apologize guys. But uh so we can't take into account our ability to control an outbreak of a particular disease in deciding whether to say yes or no to the importation of a uh of a horicultural
Um I think in terms of the work we would do around our consequence assessment that would be something and it was going to depend on the nuance of of the information but certainly when we considering the consequences and certainly the establishment of a new pest in Australia and how we might respond to it would be a factor in considering the consequence. I would
have thought so. Yes. So when you there's obviously the risk of it coming here is but then there's also the consequence how widespread and that that consequence would be a factor of uh at least in part determined by uh the responses we have legally available to us to use I presume.
>> Absolutely. So certainly those aspects would certainly be part of be relevant.
>> my understand you've proposed taking a systems approach in regards to India Indonesia. How is that going to be verified and audited?
our approach is to work through the risks, determine whether or not there are appropriate measures that can mitigate the risk to our appropriate level of protection and then if that is the case then we would engage directly with those trading partners and essentially um um come to an agreement between our two governments about what they will do. So we all need specific information that says well you know if the measure is if the measure is a treatment you know how do you authorize treatment providers how do you ensure that they use the appropriate chemical at the appropriate rate all of those sorts of things. Um and then the other element to that is ourselves thinking about and working through what additional assurance and verification framework we would need to put over the top uh of that to in to be confident that the measures um as imagined are the measures in practice. Um so that is sort of a next step after we come to a conclusion on the biocurity risk and determine whether or not it can be reduced to an acceptable level.
>> Okay. >> All right. Um you mentioned that you've one reason you haven't done the full bureau is because uh we already have arrangements for other countries but independent of the disease risk which I'll come to in a bit more detail. You actually look at the what's the potential of other markets to actually export more pineapples. So you know whether or not the risk will materialize.
Uh um so certainly volume of trade is a a factor um and that is certainly something that we would consider um not just in the immediate um assessment of risk but then uh over time and as trade evolves um if the volume of trade of a particular commodity starts to grow then that does change the risk and so we are always um assessing um over time to see whether or not those risks are changing.
>> Okay. Um get moving on to these disease risks. Um and you I think you flagged earlier that some of the feedback is that the strains of some diseases in uh India, Indonesia are potentially different from what we have here uh and and potentially more destructive. Now I don't I can't pronounce this technical term so I'm just going to go with the exploding pineapple disease which sounds a lot better. Anyway, um uh apparently that's what it's colloally called. uh uh have you evaluated whether the strains in India, Indonesia are different from what we have here in Australia on for that disease?
>> Um so certainly in the draft risk assessment we have turned our mind to some of that. Um there's not um significant information in the peer-reviewed literature that would indicate that they are um marketkedly different from the point of view of the way they might manifest and the um if you like the pathogenicity that we would um see u but certainly as I understand there has been additional technical information that's been provided to us and we will give that appropriate and careful consideration.
>> Are you requiring genetic testing of these strains on samples? Not that is
not proposed at this point in time in the measures that are in the draft report.
>> I'm I'm informed that that cost just less than $300 a sample. So why wouldn't we require that as a condition?
>> At this point in time, as I say, under the draft report, we hadn't considered that there were significant differences. That would certainly would be an option for us if we did feel that that was
>> Can [clears throat] you detect these diseases on inspection of the fruit?
>> Um not in direct, just visual inspection of the fruit. They're bacterial diseases and they can be um associated with the plant material and be undetected and they can be present in um plantations for some time without being detected.
>> Um there was an inquiry by this committee uh in 2014. Have all the recommendations of that committee been implemented? I'm happy of you to take that on notice if you don't have it. >> I'm going to have to take that one
notice, Senator.
>> Okay. All right. And um uh have you looked at the risks of of of hardcale pests spreading to host plants particularly in backyard and automal pineapples on farms that border residential blocks and the like in in India or Indonesia.
>> Um so certainly hard hardcale um hard scale insects are um some of the pests that we have evaluated in the draft risk assessment. I don't have that level of knowledge as to the precise question. I can take that unnoticed.
>> All right. Thanks for that. Um and if there is an outbreak of these diseases here, how who pays for the response to it under our biocurity arrangements?
Look >> under the existing arrangements, they would be nationally cost shared responses if they um are diseases that are covered by the plant um deeds.
>> Is that can that be factored in at all like whether or not the costs can be uh absorbed by the local industry? Uh so
certainly as we come to the consequence assessment the economic impacts um of the establishment of a pestal disease is central to our um assessment of the consequence.
>> Yeah cuz it's a relatively small industry. Pineapples are very significant locally in lots of areas including my own. Uh but um yeah I think they would really struggle if there was a major outbreak. Chair, I'm happy to hand Oh, who's the chair? You are Ross. >> Oh okay.
>> Um does anyone else have any
>> uh happy to hand the call? Do you want
to go?