Senate Community Affairs Legislation Committee, , 3:45:09 to 3:52:31
Debate on whether Minimum Service Offers (MSOs) constitute a structural form of care rationing in the aged care system.
Topics: Social services, Government spending
Speakers: Senator The Hon Jenny McAllister, Senator Penny Allman-Payne, Mr Greg Pugh, Senator Ellie Whiteaker, Ms Sonja Stewart
Thank you. Um I just want to go to the minimum service offers. Umrigally my understanding was that they were meant to be an interim measure in the first stages of the roll out of the new act, but we're certainly hearing evidence now that they seem to have become a structural feature of the home care system. Uh wondering if you can give me some information on whether it is the intention to continue giving people MSOs, or is the government working towards this department working towards actually giving people their full package when they get their package approved?
Thanks, Senator. So I might start with just a reminder around why we have interim funding. Um it's been a it's been a feature of the program uh since it first commenced and it allows us to flexibly respond to the unprecedented levels of demand that we're seeing. Um so at the moment uh in the fast financial year we had interim funding where people were being kept to a 10-week uh average wait time uh and the role of uh minimum service offers or interim funding for people outside of the urgent priority category continues to be a feature uh into 26-27.
So is it the case that the expectation now is that MSOs are a structural feature of the system?
They will continue to be a lever that we can deploy uh in the program. Uh we are just shy of one year in. Um so whether that's a structural feature long term, um, I you know I cannot comment one way or the other, but at the moment they remain a lever to help us uh help us meet demand within uh the appropriation that we have.
Um the Royal Commission into aged care, one of its key recommendations was that we need to stop governments need to stop rationing care. Is it not the case that MSOs are just another form of rationing? An already rationed system.
As Mr. Pugh has said that they are a genuine mechanism that we deploy in terms of meeting the demand, um, I would reflect that more people are receiving um uh support in their home than ever before in our country's history. Um, so there is significant demand on these resources, and just stand by what Mr. Pugh had responded to.
I note though that the demand is foreseeable. I mean, we've known for a really long time that we've got an ageing population. So maybe this is a question for the Minister. Uh Minister, given that the recommendation of the Royal Commission was to stop rationing care. Is it the government's view that MSOs are compatible with an unrationed rights-based system?
Uh thanks, Senator Allman Payne. I think you'll know that the government is making an a very large financial investment in aged care to meet the unprecedented growth in demand that arises because of our ageing population. We accept that we need to address that demand. I think the estimates are that by 30th of June 2027, 420,000 older people will have access to support at home. That's almost triple where it was in 2020, and that is a very significant level of growth in that period of time. Um we are resourcing we are increasing resources substantially, and we're aware that the Royal Commission pointed to a very extended period of neglect in the age care system. We're providing resources to respond to that.
It's true though, isn't it, that this is about government decisions. We've had an instance, for example, where you could put a tax on gas, which would mean that big corporations would pay more so more older people can get care. I guess what I'm trying to get a sense of is that the government's new that in a situation where more and more older people are going to require care, they should just expect further and further rationing rather than the government looking for revenue streams that would actually meet the needs of the older people who need the care. Because what we're seeing is it's increased rationing. Like we had a ration system, now we've got MSOs. We're now hearing that that's basically a structural feature. Is this not actually moving further and further away from not rationing care?
Senator Allman Payne, uh, I may have misunderstood. Media reports, but I understand that your leader is at the National Press Club today arguing that they uh that your party proposes a resource tax that would be used to pay for income tax cuts. Now, when I read that, I noted that you collectively have also advocated for uh tax increases um on gas to pay for the NDIS because you oppose changes to the NDIS. You've also made the argument that tax increases on gas should pay for the clean energy transition. You've advocated that tax increases on gas should be used to pay for dental. Uh my calculation is that you have expect uh have expended your proposed gas tax about five times on five different things. NDIS dental of the aged care now. I didn't know that aged care was actually on the list of things that telling of the Senator Almond Care.
Senator Allman Payne because you can't make the hardest. Senator Almond Payne running from the top end of town instead of the people at the bottom. Senator.
Senator Allman Payne. I have I had asked a number of times. Called your name a number of times. We will allow the minister to finish her response, and then we have come to the end of your block of questioning, and we will move to Senator Roberts. Minister.
On the question of rationing, um the government accepted in principle that recommendation from the Royal Commission. Um, and we are committing resources through support at home to meet the needs of the older population. But I think Senator Orman Payne, the point I was seeking to make is that uh the solutions that you propose uh do not appear to be aligned to the actual fiscal challenges that governments face. Now you'll know that the government considers that a change to uh the arrangements for private health insurance would enable less brilliance to enable. Okay, we're not going to be not in aged care.
Thank you, Minister. Thank you for the thing.
Those are changes you oppose.
We are going to have questions now from Senator Roberts. Over to you.