Senate Community Affairs Legislation Committee, , 3:52:31 to 4:02:20
Addressing feedback on the complexity of aged care terminology and efforts to provide plain-language resources and better website navigation.
Topics: Social services, Government IT systems
Speakers: Senator Malcolm Roberts, Ms Sonja Stewart, Senator The Hon Jenny McAllister, Mr Greg Pugh, Unknown Speaker, Mr Blair Comley, Mr Josh Maldon, Senator Ellie Whiteaker
Thank you, Chair, and thank you for appearing again today. One man recently told our elected office that when he tried to get a replacement crutch, he was leg grudge. He was told that he would need to go through education and tests before he could get one. He had been using a crutch for seven years and had been through many visits and tests and been linked with physios and other aligned health professionals over many years. Why did he have to go through all these expensive exercises just to get a replacement crutch when he already knew how to use it?
Senator, if I may just clarify, was the um constituent uh talking about access to a support through the assistive technology? Was the constituent talking about access to uh the crutch or the support through the assistive technology and home modification scheme? The I'll get to that in a minute. Okay.
But I don't know that.
Well, I think what Mr. Pugh's alluding to is it's a little bit difficult for us to work out what would have been required if we don't know what program he was seeking to get this assistance under.
Okay, I'll come to that. Could you name the program again, please?
Uh it's the it's under the support, under support at home program. It's a pathway called the assistive technology and home modifications. Assistive technology, assistive technology and home modification scheme. So basically someone who requires uh you know a medical device, um, a crutch, something to support, or if they need a rail or a ramp or something put in uh into their home to help them access their home or get up to the flight stairs. That's what that's what that covers, and there are uh similar ish arrangements in the Commonwealth Home Support Programme as well.
I'll answer that question with another question. Aged Australians have told me that, and my office that older Australians have a great deal of difficulty understanding aged care packages and rules. There's a plethora of terminology. As the internet sites are not user-friendly and written in bureau speak, that is near impossible to understand. That's why I asked you to repeat the title for everyone to hear. Many people still do not know what services they may be entitled to under an aged care package. Have you got any idea of whether or not the the department will be putting documents in plain language and made easy to read? Or at least making it easy for older people to follow.
Thank you for passing on that feedback.
Excuse me, is that is that a concern?
Yes, yes, so it is. So I would acknowledge you.
I don't notice two vigorous nods right next to you.
Yeah. We we would acknowledge that um these are very significant reforms that have been introduced since the first of November. Uh one of the things that we do is to try to um make uh plain English and also acknowledge that there's um people whose uh language um is not English as a primary um language. We have um uh done a whole range of different communications. Um of the ones that we receive very positive feedback is the older person's voice themselves, particularly through videos and sharing their experiences around um how they navigated and went through the system. Um to your point about our uh website and our presence, we've also received feedback that it is um difficult to navigate, particularly if people just want to ask a question using um artificial intelligence or other um prompts that they might use, and so we're making that easier for um people to be assisted in that way. I think the other thing I would say is that we listen very carefully to the Council of Elders that are a group that uh inform uh the minister on the operations of the act and um uh from time to time um and as often as we can, we run past communication material to them to get their views that they um represent a very diverse group of older people across Australia. So um the reason we were nodding is that we do hear that feedback. It's one of those balances around something which is um very complex and uh very large and making it in plain language. Uh the final thing I would say is um this morning we were asked a question around um uh communication that we're taking uh a communication campaign about aged care and um this is about getting people ready and thinking about the aged care system because very often they come into the system at a point of um crisis like something has happened to them or their family or or or their kin. And so we're doing that to get people prepared to start thinking about um the system. I wasn't sure, Josh, if you wanted to say I'm sorry, Mr. Morden, if you wanted to say anything else on that.
So just that there's a range of uh different face-to-face mechanisms that if people need support and be able to engage in the system and understand what services they may be entitled to, they are available. So for example, uh there's uh people that work at our services Australia and the Crasky is aged care service officers, there's carefinders,
Thank you. Uh this area concerns me because senior senior Australians are being treated in some cases very poorly by an uncaring bloated government. And that's not just this government, it's recent governments. Big governments complicate things and waste money. People are asking where's the care and aged care systems? Where's the simplicity, not the complexity? Minister, is the government is the government giving any thought to strategically to actually simplifying things and shrinking things. I'm not I'm not professing a solution here. I'm just asking I'm just trying to convey that people are not happy. And is there any alternative to this?
Senator, the government doesn't consider that shrinking the aged care system is a sensible or viable response to the circumstances before us. I did note that the shadow treasurer did indicate that aged care packages was an area where uh things needed to be reined in, but that's not the government's position.
But are you doing any strategic thinking to come up with a better solution? I think he could eliminate this because people can't face this.
Uh Senator, obviously the government has worked across the parliament to establish um a new system for people who to receive support in their older years at home. That's what the support at home system is. I think throughout the committee this morning, we've talked a bit about the fact that we need to keep listening to people about their feedback. Any new system will have will encounter challenges and difficulties when we hear people telling us that things don't work for them. We're interested in that. Uh I think you heard um Ms. Stewart uh earlier. I say that in relation to make it we would like older Australians to be able to access the resources they're entitled to and we're interested in feedback about how to make that more straightforward.
Final question, Senator Roberts.
Is this an issue a further waste of time and money? Because this Labor government is getting a lot of criticism. Even from the RBA that is spending so much money, wasting so much money is driving up inflation, which costs everyone to higher interest rates. And it's bankrupt in the country with reckless spending. Now yet the government continues bragging about we're spending a billion here and a billion there. Is there any thought to the effectiveness of the spending rather than the volume of spending? Cutting that volume?
We always think about the effectiveness and the outcomes of government expenditure. Minister Gallagher talks regularly about the quality of the spend being important to this government. However, I will say, as I did it in answering your question earlier, your proposal that the age care system should shrink. The bureaucracy should be seen to be responsive to the circumstances before us, which are that we have a growing population of older people.
Well, Minister, in view of that, is the is the government punishing older Australians for merely existing at a point of time in their lives when they may have greater greater needs, or is it incompetence or is it big government or is it lack of care? The lack of thinking of how to improve things.
I'll give the Minister chance to respond, should she wish otherwise I'll pass the call to Senator Rusty?
Senator, older Australians have worked hard all their lives. They are part of our community, and our government is determined to put in place the arrangements that will provide people support in their older years. It means thinking very carefully about how best to do that because as the Royal Commission made so very clear the previous government neglected the age care system. It's required a very significant amount of thinking and reform in a short period of time.
Thank you. Senator Ruston.