Senate Community Affairs Legislation Committee, , 10:38:34 to 10:45:28
A breakdown of the administrative costs for enhanced income management, including departmental versus provider costs, and the demographic profile of the current participant cohort.
Topics: Government spending, Public service staffing
Speakers: Hon Anne Ruston, Kirsti Van Der Steen, Trish Clancy, Corri McKenzie, Senator Penny Allman-Payne
We'll just keep going because clearly.
No, I didn't remember that.
The Minister, I just said fit, see you later if you were going to exit.
Oh no, I'm gonna go the distance.
Oh, okay.
Um just just following up um the questions that Senator Allman Payne about the consultation that ended in December. Um I was just wondering um uh how much was spent on this consultation.
Uh so we um tabled the costs of the ETMP contract um in the question on notice um as from the inquiry. I don't we'll find that we'll find the number in the world.
No worries. Yeah, how many submissions did you receive overall?
200.
200. Um so how big is the income management branch in the department? Can you give me a breakdown of um like staffing levels, numbers and staff?
We have about 25 staff in the branch.
25 staff.
Um we can take on those as the specific breakdown in terms of um grades.
Yep. So have you um provided briefings to the Minister for Social Services since December 2024 on briefings, either um formal in person briefings?
We continuously provide sort of various policy advice and have a range of discussions with the minister. And I think over that period of time, I think there might have been two ministers as well.
Okay. So you wouldn't have I don't have that. I'm going to be able to provide that. Okay. So when's the next lot of income management data due to be uploaded to data.gov.au.
So within the coming weeks, so we will be reporting October. Yeah. For the October period.
Yeah. Okay. You you answered to Senator Ormbain that you I think it was you said it was 2064 people were on income management voluntarily. Is that correct? From the So what's the most up-to-date data? I think the last data I saw was at September 26 was around 33,000. Is that correct?
Yes, just a touchover.
33,061.
33,061. So how many people are on income management, say in um June 2022?
There were over 40,000 approximately at that time. We'll get the exact figure for the May. Sorry, that was in May.
We'll have to get the exact figure for Jimmy.
Okay, no worries. Um I just um I've I've got the data.gov.au for June 2022, and it says 24,000. What would the discrepancy be caused? Because you've just said 40.
We won't need to check that on the case.
Yeah, we'll need to take that on notice.
Okay, cool. That that would be great. Um so I'm just um keen to understand um the demographics of the two programs that are running at the moment. Um so have you got much demographic data about the people that are on the programs? Do you catch the catch your data around you know gender, age, etc.?
We have we have data with us from each program around uh gender, uh we have uh data around the different measures they're under. We have data around whether people are on the programme are indigenous or not across each measure. We don't have age breakdown with us, although um we may be able to access it, I would need to do that.
That's fine. I'm more than happy if you to just table it as a whole. You don't be great. Just interested, how much um does it cost the government to administer the program?
So we programs. Uh both programs? Um we table uh in Parliament every March um the cost of uh administering uh enhanced income management. Uh I think at the last, I'll check the exact number, but I think at the last report in March 2026, uh it was around uh 61 million.
That's the administration and how much does the programs the enhanced income management program cost in total?
That's the only number we have. Sorry, Senator.
Sorry, Senator, can I ask sorry? Can I just clarify your question? Are you asked are you asking about the departmental administration? Departmental about the costs of administering the programme or the Well, there's there's obviously external costs.
That's what I'm trying to unconscious. So I'm just trying to understand them both.
The total cost. Yep, yeah, I can't.
Yeah. So is the 61 the total cost?
Yes, the 61 million is the estimated total cost of delivering enhanced income management.
The estimated cost. So that that wasn't a figure that you said from um when you tabled in March.
No, no, that is the figure where we we tabled in March. Yes.
So is that the actual cost up to date or the the projected cost for the forthcoming year?
No, it's the um actual the actual cost.
So it's not projected, it's the actual cost. Yep. Yep, okay, thanks. Um it would just be interested to understand um what the departmental costs are versus what the providers of the card costs are.
Um so the department um costs in that 61 million is 0.3 million? So three million.
Is the departmental cost?
Yes.
Okay, so with the line share of it's actually the card administrator.
Well, no, because services Australia costs uh the rest of the 61 million, um, which will include card provider costs as well as services Australia administrative costs.
Yep. Um I'm keen to understand um when the announcement was made um which the the minister has confirmed it still is the Albany the government's intention to abolish um any form of compulsory income management. It's only voluntary, even though we haven't got there in the last four and a half years. I'm just wondering when that decision was taken, um were there um um success measures that were um embedded in in the policy that you had to deliver and and if so, what were they and have you met them?